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RE: Universal costs for spells - Ashclout - 09-24-2022
(09-24-2022, 04:24 PM)Touc Wrote:(09-24-2022, 04:19 PM)Ashclout Wrote: Spells costing 15 RPP forces you to take a certain path. Take Energy for example. 80% of users will buy the shield (15 RPP), ebeam (15 RPP), and another spell to get access to intermediate. But what if you want to be different? What if you want the beam, but not the shield or vice versa. You are stuck with an uneven number.If you're not taking eshield and ebeam with Energy you're making a huge mistake, given that Force Wave and Energy Burst are both absolute dumpster fire spells. If you want the aura, just take it with ebeam/eshield, it's not that expensive
I was always under the impression that ebeam and eshield were 15 RPP specifically so that you could skip the rest of the tree if you wanted to get to intermediates due to the other basic spells (aside from constrict) being bad.
Of course
But that sucks. Because since E beam & shield cost 15, those spells were never be used or even CONSIDERED. But if everything was ten, they would take ebeam, shield... and one of those lesser known spells (for the same cost, you get an extra spell). And maybe they'll be used, maybe not. But you have an extra spell you can use / experiment with.
(09-24-2022, 04:26 PM)Simonh2000 Wrote:(09-24-2022, 04:19 PM)Ashclout Wrote: Can you explain to me how lowering the costs would make the tree worse? You said you would have an extra spell to buy, but... how is that bad?
Instead of doing 15 + 15, you would do 10 + 10 + 10 and thus have an extra spell. An extra spell you could choose to keep or not on your bar, an extra spell you could slot in specific situations... so you would have more flexibility? Something, I know it isn't your forte but anyway.
the math on this is simple... in the case of armed, as jumpy said, you're spending another 5 rpp for an armed stance. that in addition to the 20 rpp cost of dash strike means you'll need another 25 rpp spent in addition to reach armed's intermediates. phantom strikes (15 rpp) + anything else you'd want (10 rpp) would then get you to 50.
if phantom strikes was 10 instead, you'd end up with 45 spent in that same scenario, and you'd need to buy another spell to reach the intermediates, costing a total of 55 rpp. you'd be spending 5 more in that example, not less
armed, is the only tree which is problematic because the styles are part of the tree... when every other is in Combat Styles? I don't understand the thought process behind that, I don't think it'd be shocking if one day we had garuda, fomorian & ifrit in combat styles.
RE: Universal costs for spells - CuriousCat - 09-24-2022
Not sure if I can endorse a 20RPP dip for phantom strike, and eshield.
RE: Universal costs for spells - Ashclout - 09-24-2022
(09-24-2022, 04:38 PM)CuriousCat Wrote: Not sure if I can endorse a 20RPP dip for phantom strike, and eshield.
Uh... 30 RPP for phantom?
RE: Universal costs for spells - CuriousCat - 09-24-2022
(09-24-2022, 04:41 PM)Ashclout Wrote:(09-24-2022, 04:38 PM)CuriousCat Wrote: Not sure if I can endorse a 20RPP dip for phantom strike, and eshield.
Uh... 30 RPP for phantom?
Your suggestion listed that armed opener would also be 10RPP and 30RPP is still fairly cheap.
RE: Universal costs for spells - Ashclout - 09-24-2022
(09-24-2022, 04:46 PM)CuriousCat Wrote:(09-24-2022, 04:41 PM)Ashclout Wrote:(09-24-2022, 04:38 PM)CuriousCat Wrote: Not sure if I can endorse a 20RPP dip for phantom strike, and eshield.
Uh... 30 RPP for phantom?
Your suggestion listed that armed opener would also be 10RPP and 30RPP is still fairly cheap.
ah, this is a mistake. I'll edit that. But uhh.. tell me why you would for 30 RPP but not for 35???
If you're dipping for a spell, you don't reach for the intermediates. You claim 30 RPP would be cheap to dip, but it is currently 35... a 5 RPP diff. It is already cheap. And honestly, people have done it for ages.
But y'know what? Just let them dip. They won't have any wiggle room later on for masteries / signatures / classes.
RE: Universal costs for spells - CuriousCat - 09-24-2022
Phantom strikes is possibly one of the best basics in the game, if armed had another basic of value to put in it's place then I'd be all for pushing it to be an intermediate; That said it's simply too core of a spell to the tree, so it's important to make it as awkward a dip as possible. To the extent that it'd perhaps be best if the spell was locked to actual armed weapons, but then if an armed player wanted to use a staff for some inconceivable reason - It'd penalizes them unfairly.
So my reason? It simply should be as costly and as awkward as possible for a non-armed player to pick it up.
RE: Universal costs for spells - Ashclout - 09-24-2022
But it is not awkward.
When dipping, you don't care about uneven numbers within a tree because you don't care about going further. You're not aiming for 50 or 40 within tree. You just want the spell.
RE: Universal costs for spells - Simonh2000 - 09-24-2022
(09-24-2022, 04:23 PM)Powerjake Wrote: yeah why are some masteries 10 and some 15 but some that cost less are literally better than the more expensive ones
edit: nvm, this came off way more aggressive than I intended.
some spell costs need raising and lowering, though.
RE: Universal costs for spells - CuriousCat - 09-24-2022
(09-24-2022, 04:58 PM)Ashclout Wrote: But it is not awkward.
When dipping, you don't care about uneven numbers within a tree because you don't care about going further. You're not aiming for 50 or 40 within tree. You just want the spell.
It's five points more than it'd be otherwise, the individual who is going into various tree's to handpick the best spells to craft a build that's purely intended to win - as opposed to making any strict sense should be penalized. It's not intended for someone to simply hop from six different tree's to gobble up the best bits and to win. The game isn't about /winning/ it's about roleplaying and telling a story.
RE: Universal costs for spells - Ashclout - 09-24-2022
The game is extremely reliant on its PvP to the point it could be considered as... well... the main stuff. Everything you do, everything you 'work' for in this game-- is, insome way, meant to make your character stronger mechanically. Eternia is highly competitive in that regard. And yes. People will build in such a way to be as strong as they possibly can. To deny it, is dumb.