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Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - DreamsOfBlue - 03-15-2024
Hello! Path of Wordsmithing has been set as "Apostate" faith type and this is wrong.
It is animist. Given that it is the faith in Chaos itself, as the force.
I was told by the mod handling my ticked to suggest the change, so here I am.
I find the suggestion that I somehow have to "change the public opinion" on my faith to change the source of it to be completely silly. Its not about how people perceives you, its about where you faith is from. And from day 1 I've made it extremely clear that this was Chaos as a force, in balance with order and harmony. I even have been directly working with the church of Harmony and its goddess...
If belief in Harmony, Order and Balance is considered as Animist, so should this religion. It should be Chaos / Animist
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
The ticket in question:
![[Image: PulBe3P.png]](https://i.imgur.com/PulBe3P.png)
And current faith set up:
![[Image: bBnAKLW.png]](https://i.imgur.com/bBnAKLW.png)
Edit: Also here is a short bit of my already created post that define my religion
![[Image: SD9xNHA.png]](https://i.imgur.com/SD9xNHA.png)
I fail to see how it was ruled as "Apostate" given all the context I've given. Link to said post:
https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/forum/thread-17523.html
RE: Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - Tristam - 03-15-2024
In the context of Chaos, "apostate" would make sense. By definition, it means "a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle."
Quote:its about where you faith is from.Because according to the Mythos page here : https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/index.php?title=Mythos
Chaos and Discord has been born from the opposition to the Mythos of Creation :
https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/index.php?title=Mythos#The_Making_of_Everything.2C_The_Divine_Dragon.27s_Dance_of_Color.2C_and_Discord
Quote:These grand tasks did not go unchallenged. An entity known of many names today, but the first was Baʽal, opposed the dance of the Divine. This malicious force was unaccounted for and managed to sew discord, bringing about the Primal of Despair, Hel, establishing adversity and contention even when matched with the near limitless might of the makers. The first to oppose them as the rhythm and flow of the world was unhindered up until that point.
The respective line on the timeline mentions such : https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/index.php?title=Mythos#Timeline
Quote:The Universe Forms: The ten divine; five great dragons and beasts come to be, representing the physical laws and will of the universe, as well as the six constants, representing the unseen laws. The world and its first crude continents are formed, but not without struggle, as Chaos opposed them.
RE: Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - DreamsOfBlue - 03-15-2024
(03-15-2024, 08:47 PM)Tristam Wrote: In the context of Chaos, "apostate" would make sense. By definition, it means "a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle."
Quote:its about where you faith is from.Because according to the Mythos page here : https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/index.php?title=Mythos
Chaos and Discord has been born from the opposition to the Mythos of Creation :
https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/index.php?title=Mythos#The_Making_of_Everything.2C_The_Divine_Dragon.27s_Dance_of_Color.2C_and_Discord
Quote:These grand tasks did not go unchallenged. An entity known of many names today, but the first was Baʽal, opposed the dance of the Divine. This malicious force was unaccounted for and managed to sew discord, bringing about the Primal of Despair, Hel, establishing adversity and contention even when matched with the near limitless might of the makers. The first to oppose them as the rhythm and flow of the world was unhindered up until that point.
The respective line on the timeline mentions such : https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/index.php?title=Mythos#Timeline
Quote:The Universe Forms: The ten divine; five great dragons and beasts come to be, representing the physical laws and will of the universe, as well as the six constants, representing the unseen laws. The world and its first crude continents are formed, but not without struggle, as Chaos opposed them.
Except it doesn't apply here.
Please I urge you to read the post I made of my religion in its entirety.
My religion is a new one that sees Chaos as something that can be repurposed AWAY FROM Ba'al. So I'm quite literally OPPOSED to the line of thinking which you've posted here.
It does not fit this religion, no.
If Harmony, Order and Balance is animist, so is my religion. Theres no arguing about it, its really clear that I see Chaos as a force, that is able to change the world, and I see to use it to help creation, not destroy or oppose it. Its a new branch of Chaos worship that has nothing to do with most of what you posted here.
RE: Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - MirroredVisage - 03-15-2024
You are welcome to practice the ethics you like.
However, the force you are worshipping is against the ethics and powers of the rest of the world, and antithetical to them.
Good luck!
RE: Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - DreamsOfBlue - 03-15-2024
(03-15-2024, 08:51 PM)MirroredVisage Wrote: You are welcome to practice the ethics you like.
However, the force you are worshipping is against the ethics and powers of the rest of the world, and antithetical to them.
Good luck!
Except it is not. Chaos itself is a tool that can be used to help the rest of the world which is literally what I've been displaying.
I even unlocked holy, which is by definition, protective. Its clear that my movement is not antithetical to anyone.
This is completely ridiculous. I'm just getting shafted over in total disregard to what my faith actually is.
I've been working hand in hand with the church of harmony since day 1 and they themselves agree that my faith falls in line with what they believe, same for the literal goddess of Harmony...
I'm one of the rare faith that actually has been doing teamwork with other faiths that fall in line with the religion I'm pursuing, and now that a mechanic is added to support that, I'm getting excluded due to some completely arbitrary ruling that doesn't even understand what I'm doing?
I feel like literally none of you read that post in earnest if you don't understand (The one that explains my faith in great detail)
Like the ENTIRE POINT of having deity and faith separated is so you can have multiple branches under the same thing.
I am a follower of chaos, who believes of it as a force in balance with harmony and order. Meaning that I am Chaos / Animist.
If I was a follower of chaos that wants to see it destroy the world or whatever then I'd be Chaos / Apostate.
Completely dismissing my IC and just focusing on what you believe chaos to be and shoehorning me into something I'm not feels like shit.
RE: Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - FaustianPanzer - 03-15-2024
perceptions of a religious order does not equal the actual effects of how their magic and belief affect the world
ryan kyros had one of the most evil, soul-corrupting magics in the world (necromancy) and was also a holy magi and a lich.
chaos is not limited to just occult, sure, but it's also not a force of "good' on the world. you can RP how much you believe chaos can do good, but it is fundamentally against the rules by which life is sustained.
RE: Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - DreamsOfBlue - 03-15-2024
(03-15-2024, 08:59 PM)FaustianPanzer Wrote: perceptions of a religious order does not equal the actual effects of how their magic and belief affect the world
ryan kyros had one of the most evil, soul-corrupting magics in the world (necromancy) and was also a holy magi and a lich.
chaos is not limited to just occult, sure, but it's also not a force of "good' on the world. you can RP how much you believe chaos can do good, but it is fundamentally against the rules by which life is sustained.
It is not fundamentally against the rules of which life is sustained.
Chaos special ability is to create. Literally just make things appear that shouldn't exist.
That was sought to be used to destabilize and destroy the world by Ba'al. Su-Zan instead is using this to try and create things that will better the world.
That in itself is not against life. You're are highly misunderstanding what I'm doing and what I worship because I feel you lack some context on what the abilities of Chaos actually is, beside just focusing on its origins.
ALSO if it WAS against life itself, or the lifestream, I wouldn't have been given Holy.
RE: Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - bonafidenubbin - 03-15-2024
From my perspective I think there's some accidental cross-talk happening here - which is to say your *religion* can be totally in favor of good things, but the *force itself* that you worship is inherently malign. Like for an example, consider somebody who was trying to build a positive church around Hel, in the idea that Despair is an important and meaningful part of the human experience. That idea could totally be true, but Hel itself as the being is antithetical enough to the rest of the world that anybody venerating him would by necessity be an apostate. I.e., whatever your faith says, it can't change the nature of the god/force itself.
I suspect this is maybe two different streams of lore counteracting each other?
You seem like you might be coming at this from the angle where Order/Chaos are two naturally balanced halves of the same whole, ala what I believe is the nature of arcane magic from like E2? (disclaimer, am a noob).
But in E4 with Chaos/Discord intentionally being Belial/Ba'al's spanner in the works from a nice pleasant happy cosmology, Harmony might be the good alternative to Chaos's evil, in the basic lore of the theme.
I do think that kind of sucks for what you're trying to do, but maybe there's an angle where it's not chaos itself you're venerating, but something more like... Freedom?
RE: Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - FaustianPanzer - 03-15-2024
(03-15-2024, 09:01 PM)DreamsOfBlue Wrote: ALSO if it WAS against life itself, or the lifestream, I wouldn't have been given Holy.
holy has nothing to do with inherently defending the lifestream,
e2 wiki:
Holy - Righteous
The manipulation of religious beliefs in a form of light magic. To heal and protect those around you as well to bring down punishment upon evil doers and all things unholy.
e3 wiki:
Holy Magic
The Holy Arts are a collective of magical techniques that originate as an affinity towards the angels and their arcane light, the divine arbitrators that once acted as guardians of the cosmos. In recorded history, its roots start with the legendary figure Arthor Pendragon, who gained the power through the blade of Excalibur in the continent of Brittania. Beyond the beginnings, Holy Magic's driving force is the desire to protect, the polar opposite of the Occult's driven desire for destruction. Not to be mistaken with Light Magic, which is the direct manipulation of the metaphysical rays of light. While they do share some physical characteristics (and even practical ones) the latter has no emotional influence to it.
you can have a desire to protect that doesn't interfere with your affinity for depraved, chaotically arcane, evil ass magic.
RE: Path of Wordsmithing has been labeled wrong in the new faith system - DreamsOfBlue - 03-15-2024
(03-15-2024, 09:04 PM)bonafidenubbin Wrote: From my perspective I think there's some accidental cross-talk happening here - which is to say your *religion* can be totally in favor of good things, but the *force itself* that you worship is inherently malign. Like for an example, consider somebody who was trying to build a positive church around Hel, in the idea that Despair is an important and meaningful part of the human experience. That idea could totally be true, but Hel itself as the being is antithetical enough to the rest of the world that anybody venerating him would by necessity be an apostate. I.e., whatever your faith says, it can't change the nature of the god/force itself.
I suspect this is maybe two different streams of lore counteracting each other?
You seem like you might be coming at this from the angle where Order/Chaos are two naturally balanced halves of the same whole, ala what I believe is the nature of arcane magic from like E2? (disclaimer, am a noob).
But in E4 with Chaos/Discord intentionally being Belial/Ba'al's spanner in the works from a nice pleasant happy cosmology, Harmony might be the good alternative to Chaos's evil, in the basic lore of the theme.
I do think that kind of sucks for what you're trying to do, but maybe there's an angle where it's not chaos itself you're venerating, but something more like... Freedom?
The disconnect her is that Chaos is not Ba'al, but the force that Ba'al created. Its like saying oh you have occult therefore you are on the side of Helheim. This is literally the same thing that people are doing to me here.
Just because I am using Chaos, which is something that ba'al created, doesn't mean I am antagonistic to the world or that my faith is. It only means I am using which ba'al created.
I see it exactly as it is: A force that was created to destroy/destabilize creation. And I'm sure many of you are not aware of this, and I hate that I'm now forced to spoil this, but Chaos's special ability is to literally create things out of thin air that shouldn't exist in creation. Its like having cheat engine on and adding line of codes to the world that weren't intended by the creators.
Its easy to see how that could be used by ba'al to attempt to destroy creation, but its also easy to see how that could be used to make the world a better place.
And my religion sees creation as already altered by Chaos. It already is not as it was intended to be, thanks to ba'al's meddling.
I'm just looking to use that Chaos to do good, instead of having it ruin the world like Ba'al intended.
None of this clash with any of the existing lore.