[Goonism]

Yeah, sorry to be that guy again, but when I look at this tree when compared against its parallel, then I can't help but feel it outclasses it in every way, and I  normally hate complaining, but when I'm out here busting my ass and putting my character on the line, I don't want to deal with fighting this sort of thing - it's just too strong the way it is.
Holy AoE collectively gives 20% DR when used amongst one another.

Guardian: +20%, damage mitigated returned as HP. Duration of 10s.
With the recent DR buffs given, this spell is far too strong for what it is. The sustain this can give alone is crazy when we take into account the usage of the spells that are being put to use. Topped with that, we also have to take into consideration that it has another built-in heal with Mend that gives a nice amount of HP on a rather low cooldown.

God fucking forbid somebody makes it to Titan of Light, where they get 30% DR off the spells alone.

But wait.

Let's not forget Barrier, the shit that gives 40% DR as well, so great - more time to completely negate my damage which is so crucial to get off, especially with the recent agility nerfs and how heavy the cooldowns can be on some abilities rendering you pretty much unable to fucking fight somebody in the slightest if you can't get some damage off.

And this is only one tree.

We're not talking about all of the possibilities we can mix and mash into this fucked up equation. We're not taking into account all of the sustain you can get from something like Water, or fucking Nature, or even Time. It's just too much. You do your damage, it heals it all up, and he -still- does equal enough damage to me because everybody knows Damage Reduction just outclasses any sort of real attack power you can get from buffs, auras or something like that.

Nerf the healing, nerf the damage reduction, nerf the power. This tree gives you way too much for so little. You can't compete against it, especially when there's this messed up meta that's being pushed for hard DR and you can't do anything against it. Blackout potions are gone, agility got a bit of a nerf, and you can hit up to around 18% DR with booster-maxed mana. Too much tankiness, too much power and no real counterplay when you can absorb damage from any sort of tree.

[Mordere]

The sustain realy isn't what makes Guardian strong. If we're going to be honest and real here? Guardian is just a 10 second long 40% DR ability. Because it heals for that 20% of damage mitigated, it's essentially a 40% DR ability don't you think?

Oh did you just use curse or illusion's distort to halve heailng? Correction it's not a 30% DR ability for 10 seconds.

Point being.... the DR is off the charts in the holy tree when you space out guardian and holy shield it's a total of 16 seconds of 40% DR, which means if you have 0 agi and both are a 30 second cooldown? You now have to wait 14 seconds before one shield comes back up. With 150 agi (which is the standard lets be honest.) you're looking at 25 second cds for both.... So really it's just 9 seconds before you can laugh at them again.

Thanks for coming to my hate talk about holy's 2 shield abilities ok bye that's my only problem with the tree.

[Hated]

Holy with nature is cancer sustain agreed

[Lorelai]

DR is a braindead stat. At least if you get bonus AP which is what occult gives, you have to land your abilities and can completely miss. Holy can have constant DR buffs at all times making someone's ability to burst not work at all. So not only are you potentially always doing less than you should when you burst, but while bursting you are putting yourself into their damage. They are hitting you for damage you SHOULD be doing while they are taking LESS and there isnt any period of time when you can really hit them for your full damage burst because they have so many DR abilities that they can always have DR up. Theres just no downtime.

And if they go sustain, and you go a less burst based build and just try to do damage over time, they heal all that away anyways. Its kinda dumb. Holy spells either need to do WAY less damage so that the damage it does is comparable to the damage they take while their DR bonuses are active, since they're TANKS. They shouldnt be Assassins with tank stats.
Or Holy needs their DR buffs halved because theres TOO MUCH OF IT as is.

I swear this was mentioned before and they just swept it under the rug or something.


And dont forget they get 10% DR for as long as their AoE lasts.

AoE > AoE > Shield > Shield

In Holy alone you got 4 abilities with 6 or more seconds of bonus DR.

[Itome]

+1 on nerfing holy, especially when you consider the cancer they can inflict by being paired with other evil trees like nature

just lower the dr they get, its way too much

[Joshua]

It’s not that bad..

[Jess]

It's annoying at times but not overpowering usually, the issue as with most cases when people scream for nerfs is the trees used to supplement it just as much as anything else.

The aoe for being so massive and giving DR could use a tone down, but I have no problems with anything else.

[Mordere]

Honestly the damage and aoe DR is fine sure whatever... But why do all AOEs doubletick immediately after being placed down?

I just want shields to have a longer cd or shorter duration on guardian.

[Jetniss]

I've said in the past that Holy is overtuned. I still think it is. Their buff has little downtime and that's a problem.
The AoE's should be nerfed, or the DR from the AoE's halved.
And the duration of the other things-- Guardian and Shield, should indeed be shortened or given a longer CD.
There is cancer ways to pair this tree with other trees that make it frustrating to fight, but I don't think the problem is in the other trees. I think the problem is indeed found in Holy.
The other trees are fine on their own, it's when they're paired with Holy that it becomes disgusting, and Holy without being paired is already close to disgusting and can really just be slapped together with anything for insane effect.

If Occult had as many AP buffs as Holy has DR buffs, it'd be a severe balancing issue. It's just the idea that it's too much, it's like min-maxing. Holy gets you so tanky that you can string almost any brain-dead build together and be fine, because you take no damage. Someone has to put twice the effort and time to kill you as you put into them. And the time it takes to kill you only gets higher the longer the match goes on. It gives you enough power to to kill, and more than enough power to out-last. So you're not trading damage for longevity, you're just adding longevity onto damage.

If every tree has drawbacks, holy feels like there are none, because they trade nothing for their survivability.
Occult in comparison trades nothing for their bonus damage, but it's not as bad as holy because it's not:
1. Min-maxed- as hard as Holy into one particular stat/mechanic
2. Has the potential to miss and lose out on their bonus damage. Even if they can buff their AP to 1000%, if they land nothing, it's a waste. (Not saying that would be balanced, just illustrating difference between AP vs DR buffs)-- whereas Holy only needs to just focus on keeping their CDs up around the time your burst is off CD.