[BrahmsFrost]

^_^

Yeah I agree skill also plays a good part!

[Prestige]

someone like fru/bog/hated/Chance who have very high skill levels cannot be used as a basis of comparison to the average player.

one of these is not like the others

[Trenton]

yes, for some reason people categorized fru with chance and bog when she can only be categorized with me and mimloopen, the real warriors of this game. they are beneath us

[Leeroy_Pancake]

the truth of the matter is: most times the 'meta' doesn't actually exist but you see a lot of builds being repeated because people are too scared to try something new.

I would agree, and disagree with this. There is Always, a meta. This isn't really an exception. This game, is not perfectly balanced. Nothing ever is. You can look at games with decades more work, from hundreds more, more talented teams. Games that are refined down to 'rock, paper, scissors' simplicity, and even there, there is a meta. It changes, but there is always a specific choice, that can more easily beat any other. It might be more slim, it might be as subtle as being able to call it simply 'skill'. But there is always a more optimal way to do something.

That said: Yeah, a lot of people stick to what they know. People follow behind others, and go with 'safe' choices. Because that's what is easier, it's what secures people to the idea, that they won't have to remake, to be fit for fighting. They won't have to grind for hours to afford a mana amnesia. At most people stray slightly enough to feel unique. I'm not going to bash this thought process. I do it myself from time to time, when I can't think of something clever or fully unique, I don't have a good theme in mind. A lot of times I revert back to themes I've used in the past, that Did work well.

But even saying that, many Do branch out. Many do experiment. I told to a lot of people who used to, and are gone now. I talk to people who, like me, find designing a unique build, the funnest part of Eternia. To think of an idea that is fun to toy with, what magics fit it, and still make it viable. It is for those people, and myself, that I suggested what I did, in the way that I did. Because those choices, that freedom, the viability of different combinations and options, is decreasing. I know this because I have worked with people who look solely at 'The Most Optimal' builds, who do break the game, who cause some of these nerfs, and many times, they restrict ideas, run me down why certain paths just, don't work, from a power stand point.

Stating that 'the meta' just doesn't exist, is a fairly ignorant way to explain away any changes. It does, denying it doesn't help anyone. Acknowledging it, and making it as subtle as possible? Making it so it can be competed with easier? Giving the players more freedom and choice, ultimately more power: That, helps everyone, including the admins.

[Mali]

I stan trent and dani. Preach, Queens.

[Dimmie Dunce]

Gotta disagree my friend.

I may only know how to play ONE type of build, but it's not the meta. Hell my build is known for being annoying, obnoxious to fight, and very tilting to engage against.

Which is honestly why I play it. Most people don't want to fight it after the first try. Unless they're desperate to get a win.

It's a build that, in theory, has no right to work. But I make it work.
I've been told it's OP.

But if that's the case then why does nobody copy it?

Probably because I run, at max, around 230 buffed mdamage, maybe less maybe more.
If I'm lucky, 200 buffed vit, but usually 180-190 without food.
and then an absurd amount of agility. Like an asinine ridiculous amount.

I think there are trees that DO need tuneups.

Like Ice's aura is absolute garbage for its cost if you compare it to something like Blood Pall or Crystal aura. It's a flat 25 Power with a homing E that can be dodged, it's legit on par with the 5 RPP cost Fire Aura or Wind Aura.

Nature's CDs are ridiculous and its aura is so stinky garbage that I wheeze with laughter whenever I see someone use it. Pyroclasm can be good but its a meme and bugs frequently.

But, I really donno what the meta is. Stunlocks have been nerfed, CC can be cleansed or negated if played right, etc etc.

The most esshar lacks imo, is variety with what you can do with your build and what you can purchase due to its costs and intermediates. But at the same time that's reasonable.

If we didn't have that, then I'd be able to show you what hell really is with the potential build I could achieve if intermediates and high cost spells were a thing of the past and more like spires.

Edit:

I also think spirit needs a buff. It's just sad...

Edit 2:

But uh seriously. What is the meta. Is it crystal teraphim? Because that in itself is a gambling meme. Teraphim is strong tho.

[Avee]

someone like fru/bog/hated/Chance who have very high skill levels cannot be used as a basis of comparison to the average player.

one of these is not like the others

I mean, you can bash him or say whatever you want, but I’ve never met someone who is genuinely approachable and will spend hours teaching someone how to do a certain thing in verb. I can think of several people he has given a helping hand to in the past few months.

If that’s what you mean by one of these things is not like the others, that’s pretty fucked up. 

But, I know it was good hearted elbow nudging, so I won’t shitpost.

Consider this post to be me pointing out a player in our community who deserves to be noticed for helping other players in a genuine and friendly way.

[Jumpy]

Isaac Shimasu taught me that whiffing great fire wave doesn't matter if your illusion flurry does 17k damage on its own.

[Hated]

I crunch numbers because of how my brother taught me how to play video games, specifically rpgs where there are stats that matter, that wont change. I do and always will take the time to run these numbers for other players too. ive sat there for 12 hours teaching someone everything they ask about and ill fuckin do it again and again. some people look down on that but at the end of the day I know I can give these people a fighting chance so ive also learned to shrug off that negativity. no response to that 'one of these is not like the others' comment because for once dani is right, but in a fuckin' wrong way. this is because ill take all my personal time to teach people as well as explore and further develop my skills in our combat system even if I already do well with it. im always paying attention to the game state, so my opinion on this thread is yes, metas certainly exist, but it comes down to the skill of the player using it.

what did change for myself is my ability to read and write over the years thanks to this game and specific players
^Shoutout to chance/shelpies/Avee!/shanal/notyel/doohl/mouse/random. These gems ive payed attention to over the years to learn how to rp in different styles and develop my writing skills. from driving story, developing a character, to playing an antag/protag, to casual rp with non proactive players and everything in-between. Where as the writing should matter more and you can definitely be proactive without combat, the combat system is in fact in the fuckin' game and can be a deciding factor of every players story. So why not be good at it or given a fighting chance?

[Touc]

This 'meta' stuff is odd, and I don't think there's a nailed down 'meta'. Instead, the meta is decided by certain people who run off and get their characters killed at the first sign of their build being nerfed just so that they can number crunch and rebuild into something more powerful, mainly so that they can be the ones who stay on top. They're the ones who dictate the 'meta' by putting so many hours of gameplay into the combat that they can recognise what's good, what's bad, and what's downright amazing. They can recognise something's potential when someone else might just pass over it, and since that thing won't have been touched (since people pass over it), it'll probably be pretty strong, which leads to a nerf later down the line, and the cycle continues. In general, they'll try and find the best thing for their 'job' of killing and fighting other characters.