[Doru7]

Language in the Discord and game should be appropriate and non-discriminatory, while keeping in mind that minors may be present.

Hi. We need to talk about this.

Why is this very important piece of information hidden away in the community guidelines section of the rules page? Why is this not the first thing I see when I read the game's description? Why has no one bothered to mention this ONCE ever anywhere?

Games on Byond, and privately run MMOs in general, trend towards a target audience of 16+ so frequently that I personally feel that the distinction that this community is minor-inclusive needs to be made clear before someone even begins to play the game.

Those of you who know me know that I'm a vulgar, crass, laid-back person who sticks my foot in my own mouth while trying to protect the sanctity of players having an enjoyable experience.

Those of you who know me from the ss13 community, however, should note that my devil-may-care attitude does NOT extend to where the safety of minors is involved. I have run investigations into various communities who have so much as hinted at the potential of housing individuals who groom minors, having exposed two such individuals in my time. Note that I do not (yet) claim such a crime to be present in the Eternia community. I simply wish to take a proactive stance to protect underage players in a game that is tangentially connected to known individuals on the platform.

[Avee]

I don't believe in enforcing an age limit due to the occasional players depravity. We occasionally run into this in the community and deal with it.

I do not believe we should restrict it to 18+ because this will only send the message that players may be expected to behave in a depraved way.

This can't be realistically enforced regardless.

I hate this poll.

[Doru7]

I don't believe in enforcing an age limit due to the occasional players depravity. We occasionally run into this in the community and deal with it.

I do not believe we should restrict it to 18+ because this will only send the message that players may be expected to behave in a depraved way.

This can't be realistically enforced regardless.

I hate this poll.

This isn't about what is 'realistically enforceable', this is about making it clear that the community accepts underage players and is willing to keep them safe.

My question to you is why does this poll offend you?

[Chance]

that I personally feel that the distinction that this community is minor-inclusive needs to be made clear before someone even begins to play the game.

The vast, vast majority of players are 18+. Most are mid-20s. Minors are fortunately rare in the community, so we don't deal with the same problems that the average SS13 server does. 

I'd say an age rating of 18+ on this game is fair, given the content and what you can potentially be exposed to, which is one reason why sexual content is strictly private. But I'm not sure if it's necessary to proactively police exactly, unless a situation is brought to our attention where someone's safety is involved (f.ex, a minor ERPing, or being exposed to sexual content).

[Doru7]

that I personally feel that the distinction that this community is minor-inclusive needs to be made clear before someone even begins to play the game.

The vast, vast majority of players are 18+. Most are mid-20s. Minors are fortunately rare in the community, so we don't deal with the same problems that the average SS13 server does. 

I'd say an age rating of 18+ on this game is fair, given the content and what you can potentially be exposed to, which is one reason why sexual content is strictly private. But I'm not sure if it's necessary to police exactly, unless a situation is brought to our attention where someone's safety is involved.

I'm not saying you should police the server. However, by allowing minors onto the server, and also allowing mature content in private instances, you can see where my concern is. Especially when taken into consideration with the following rule:

On Ghost & Player Logs

It is against policy to watch a scene that isn't in public as a ghost. Additionally, we generally respect player privacy and avoid reading the logs... Only head admins can do so (very of us) and typically only do so to investigate cheating or a report. 

If someone takes a minor into a private instance, no one is going to know about it unless that minor makes a report. That's what scares me.

[Chance]

If someone takes a minor into a private instance, no one is going to know about it unless that minor makes a report. That's what scares me.

Once again, most (maybe all, with the exception of one or two) players in the community are 18+, and certainly 16+. Obviously we aren't omniscient and cannot see every situation; in the same way Discord doesn't deny registration because private DMs exist. I think you are being scared about the wrong things, and panic mongering over essentially a non-issue in our case.

That isn't to say I'm against the game being exclusively 18+ if it's what the community wants. I don't think it'll stop anyone from under that age from playing if they really want to though. Or it'll change much since our audience/community is already 18+ regardless (and that will only get older as the internet ages). A good size of the existing community also began playing in their early/late teens, and I wouldn't pre-emptively ban/gate them if the choice was there; it's a complicated situation and one I'm thankful we haven't had to wrestle with much.

[Doru7]

If someone takes a minor into a private instance, no one is going to know about it unless that minor makes a report. That's what scares me.

Once again, most (maybe all, with the exception of one or two) players in the community are 18+, and certainly 16+. Obviously we aren't omniscient and cannot see every situation; in the same way Discord doesn't deny registration because private DMs exist. I think you are being scared about the wrong things, and panic mongering over essentially a non-issue in our case.

So you're saying that you're willing to take responsibility to protect an underage player in the event that they are taken to one of the game's many private instances, correct?

Edit: Why do none of your edited posts say that you edited them, Chance? Genuinely curious.

[Chance]

I don't know what you're asking. We aren't going to read everyone's logs, because that's just not possible, or desired, nor are we going to ID every player to see if they're 18+. We can only take action where we're aware.

I'll be real also, and say that as seriously as I take these kinds of subjects, there is much worse to witness both online than offline than some poorly written smut. Communities are also a much kinder/protective place in general compared to 10+ years ago; this isn't a primary concern of mine, or a possibility that'll keep me up at night. But I welcome opinions and see it as a very valid discussion to have given the nature of this game.

[Avee]

This isn't about what is 'realistically enforceable', this is about making it clear that the community accepts underage players and is willing to keep them safe.

My question to you is why does this poll offend you?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressive_mimicry

Honestly? 

Because someone with the behavior you have shown in some of your RPs and other in-game interactions attempting to die on the hill of 'safety for underage players' disgusts me. As an example, repeating 'scratching your balls' in public: If you cared about the type of content others were exposed to, then this behaviour didn't show it.

I'll make you a deal though, Chance can post all of my logs from all of my characters assuming he does the same for you.

I do not trust this narrative you're putting forth. I do not trust you.

[Doru7]

I don't know what you're asking. We aren't going to read everyone's logs, because that's just not possible, or desired, nor are we going to ID every player to see if they're 18+. We can only take action where we're aware.

I'll be real also, and say that as seriously as I take these kinds of subjects, there is much worse to witness both online than offline than some poorly written smut. Communities are also a much kinder/protective place in general compared to 10+ years ago; this isn't a primary concern of mine, or a possibility that'll keep me up at night. But I welcome opinions and see it as a very valid discussion to have given the nature of this game.

This isn't about ERP exclusively. That's a huge factor, but that's not the limit.

Think about the average day in Meranthe: Executions. Loss of life and limb. Decapitations. Physical and Mental trauma. Blood Magic and ritual sacrifice.

There's an IC saying that goes "It's not a night in Final Frontier if a kid isn't bleeding out in the main square."

This isn't even going into specific IC plotlines and character interactions. Or Events.

There's a lot to consider if you're making sure the game is safe for all ages.