[Bruce]

Hi! Welcome. Canon/Lore talk, mostly. Lots of words, I warned you.

https://chronicles-of-esshar.com/lore/in...agic_Power

I've been reading into the numbers given for magic stats for a little bit, and there is a point I would like to make. Before that, however, I'll have to say I'm mostly in line with the upgrades to sprinting speed, these are the values given:

• Basic: Minimum of 10 Magic Power.
  
• Intermediate: Minimum of 50 Magic Power.
  
• Master: Minimum of 100 Magic Power. Higher than 70% of Magi.
  
• Exalted: Minimum of 300 Magic Power. Higher than 95% of Magi.
  
• Mythic: Minimum of 1000 Magic Power. Among the millions that live in Esshar, there's rarely more than a hundred at a time within this tier.
  

Quantifying the above would be something like the following, though it naturally varies from person to person:

Basic: Avg. sprint of 20MPH, a standard attack generates 300 pounds of force.
Intermediate: Avg. sprint of 30MPH, a standard attack generates 600 pounds of force.
Master: Avg. sprint of 60MPH, a standard attack generates two tons of force.
Exalted: Avg. sprint of 100MPH, a standard attack generates five tons of force.
Mythic: Avg. sprint of 150MPH, a standard attack generates ten tons of force.

• Note from Bruce: Keep in mind, these specifically represent average sprinting speed, and not their short-burst/combat speed or reaction speed, so these values may not be the be-all discourse of movement velocity.
  

A source I often like to check while reviewing matters revolving around power-scaling in fiction is the VSBattles wiki, because they mostly have good values for reference and detailed calculations. 

Here's what they have on speed: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Speed

If we get it down to numbers, a Basic magi would be able to run at a speed of 20 miles per hour. Hence, about 8.9 m/s - which would correspond to the speed at which an average athlete can run. So far? I'd say consistent. 

Then you have Intermediate magi, which would on average be reaching sprinting velocities of 30MPH - this, in comparison, would be just above Usain Bolt, whose top recorded footspeed (and all of humanity's, since he's the world record holder) is of 27.8MPH/12.42m/s. This speed would put the intermediate magi just barely above peak human, and into low superhuman movement, at 13.41 m/s. So far, I feel like it's pretty consistent.

Then, there's Master magi, whose speed should be taken as well above Average between them, at 60MPH - well further into Superhuman territory (26.8m/s). So far, even though I feel as though the gaps could've been slightly bigger, it's decent.

Then, with Exalted? We get into the better stuff. At 100MPH or 44.7 meters per second, they have entered the Subsonic tier of movement speed (considered anything from 34.3 m/s onwards), which is starting ground for what's considered above what the human eye can reliably react to in proximity. This is also where they start to outrun all real land animals (The Cheetah can only sprint at around 65-70MPH), though some birds (such as a white throated needletail swift, the mexican freetailed bat or diving falcons) still vastly outmatch them.

Finally, Mythic magi (!!!!). 150MPH - 67 meters per second. Not too much of a gap, still well within the bottom part of Subsonic. You know, about 5-8 MPH slower than what a 2006 Honda Civic Coupe can go. But, give them a break! They're only the 0.00001% strongest magi, there's always someone (or something) better!

I'm kidding, of course. (The Honda Civic part is a fact however)

All in all, a fat improvement considering some really magi BARELY  broke athletic human speeds if not focused much on agility in Spires of Agartha. I would suggest making the scaling a bit less linear and maybe closer exponential-based. Maybe taking the averages somewhere along the lines of 20MPH, 35MPH, 70MPH, 140 and 300 would be a bit better suited, considering these last are meant to be the be-all-end-all of magi. (Which would at least give some lee way for the strongest folk to travel at least around mach 0.5 or so, which doesn't sound so far-off anyway) Though I understand these are averages, and rough numbers.

Aside from that, however? Speed is cool, a good change! We stan.

Which brings me to attack potency. 

Yikes.
Here's where I definitely feel some adjustments could be made. I'm assuming we're using pounds per feet, and not per meter.Using these two for greater reference: 
http://www.kylesconverter.com/energy,-work,-and-heat/foot--pounds-force-to-joules
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Potency

With 10 Magic Power, the Base magi can excert 300 pounds of force from a standard attack, that's around 406 Joules. That could be alright and somewhat consistent? Granted, with this much strength, they could easily punch through a wood door. Considering this is for the absolute baseline of what's considered a magi, it might be a bit high. This puts them solidly at Street Level of attack potency (the tier in which you usually put dents in cars with fists, break bones easily, and punch as hard as some of the strongest boxers on earth).

Then, at 50 MP, an Intermediate can excert twice as much, 600 pounds or 813 joules. That is still very much in the same category, there's still certain types of wood you wouldn't be able to punch through. You could probably break a handcuff's chain with that much strength, however.

At 100 Magic Power? A Master magi packs two tons of force. While I see that you're trying to ramp up their effective power, that's still... 2710 Joules. You could... at most... probably uhhhhh... bend a hollow baseball bat...? zzzzzzzzzzzz (Though you could MAYBE make a small hole in a slim concrete or cement wall).

With 300 Magic Power, we're in the 5%. Exalted magi pack five tons of force, or 6780J. Still street level.

Then, at a whopping ONE THOUSAND Magic Power? Ten tons of strength, or 13 kilojoules. Barely putting a dent in Street+, the Mythic are still not worthy of being called Wall-busters. (y i k e s)

I'd suggest tampering with thoes values a lot. If we were talking pounds/meter, those would probably be about four times higher (I can't be arsed to do both sets of comparisons, at least now). Still, I think there could be a better benchmark of exponential growth for scaling (since being linear doesn't usually fit high fantasy stuff).

I suggest having Base Magi be around Athlete level. Intermediates solidly on Street level. Master magi somewhere within Wall and Room destroying potential. Exalted between Building/Large Building level, maybe even have them scrape the lower end of City Block. Then have Mythic be your Town busting, Storm generating, Pain-doing-the-Shinra-Tensei-on-Konoha (Island level feat btw) juggernauts.

I have no other points this has been probably just a bunch of observations and scaling ideas that could help orient players (and writers involved in general) as to what the fictional verse can do. The things I'm pointing out however are mostly oriented towards the way I've constantly seen the playerbase roleplay in terms of what magi are capable of in Spires of Agartha (no one was rping fighting at 16 miles per hour there), and suggesting having them fit the descripted values in both the wiki as well as ingame. Unless the canon is receiving a humongous attack power nerf, that is.


Anyway, jesus. If you've read this far, kudos to you. Thank you!


why did i even do this again i forgot

[Chance]

Good feedback, and a fun read. I'll play around with the numbers some. 

That VS link helps a lot.

[Chance]

==Magic Power==
Whether or not someone is capable of harnessing mana, they passively generate magical power as it is required to live. Certain magitech can even take a read on how much of this energy flows through a person, though it's purely a measure of their raw magical potency rather than their overall combat skill. There are five tiers that individuals might be placed under depending on this reading.

*Basic: Minimum of 10 Magic Power.
*Intermediate: Minimum of 50 Magic Power.
*Master: Minimum of 100 Magic Power. Higher than 70% of Magi.
*Exalted: Minimum of 300 Magic Power. Higher than 95% of Magi.
*Mythic: Minimum of 1000 Magic Power. Among the millions that live in Esshar, there's rarely more than a hundred at a time within this tier.

Quantifying the above would be something like the following, though it naturally varies from person to person as specializations differ. This is meant to act as a rough guide and base line for a character's speed (including reflex) and how much power a focused, average attack delivered by them might pack. Generally speaking if they generate that much force they're also durable enough to defend against similar impact from another person.

*Basic: Avg. sprint of 20MPH, a standard attack generates enough force to crack stone.
*Intermediate: Avg. sprint of 30MPH, a standard attack generates enough force to destroy a wall.
*Master: Avg. sprint of 60MPH, a standard attack generates enough force to destroy a small house.
*Exalted: Avg. sprint of 100MPH, a standard attack generates enough force to destroy a large house.
*Mythic: Avg. sprint of 150MPH, a standard attack generates enough force to destroy a small mountain.

A magi's power scaling can be between two tiers, naturally, rather than one or the other. The attack force is also their standard, focused strike, rather than their absolute limit. It is their baseline.

[Chance]

This is also relevant to the above:

Outlawed Magic

These techniques, while not considered forbidden necessarily due to their school of magic, but rather the danger they pose to society and the user themselves, are illegal depending on the circumstance under the nation's law. The category is also a factor in assessing the overall threat of a person's magic; someone with a level 5 technique might not be aligned with the dark forces of the world, but have the power and capabilities to single-handedly massacre thousands should they choose to do so.

• Category 1: The user can practice the techniques freely but must register it with their local authorities. Certain abilities that might allow someone to discreetly cause harm or assassinate a target, such as a powerful blood magic attack or enhanced poison.
  
• Category 2: They must be granted express permission to use the ability. The dark arts would fall under this as a general rule of thumb.
  
• Category 3: The potential for destruction is at a level where distant monitoring is necessary unless the individual is trusted. If someone has the capability to destroy a town with their magic, for example, whether it's a poisonous plague or through pure, raw force.
  
• Category 4: This technique could endanger society as a whole if misused, causing massive amounts of damage.
  

It is mostly background flavor though and I don't expect anyone to have to register to the city if they become a blood mage or whatever else.