[RainIsABirb]

This is a good take! I feel like moving forward with a mindset like this would promote healthy balance changes to the game. Less invulnerabilities means that people will need to adjust to their abilities better, something that'll inherently make things a bit more 'skillfull'.

Not necessarily 'less invulnerabilities'- many builds only have 1 or 2 at most anyway- but moreso the ability to add more defensive options in the future so builds can have access to a variety of options for use. It's the same reason why not every spell in a tree can be super good- because they're not mutually exclusive with the other amazing options available.

And it won't make anything more skillful either. Skill really doesn't have anything to do with this particular conversation, fortunately.

... But I'm mostly nitpicking here.

[Enginseer-42]

In any case, to actually comment on the issue of meta. I think the main thing that drives meta is some effects are more useful than others, and that drives players towards the trees that give them those effects.

Invulns are just one of those useful effects. Movement skills, cleanses, slows, stuns, roots, buffs, debuffs. All have had their days to shine. Now in the era of "I have well over 300 resting power." Invulns are the meta option. Nerf them and it becomes something else.

Almost inevitably, in any system where trees are mechanically unique, one tree will be better than another.

It would require a fairly large universal game overhaul to fix this. Because you would have to revamp every tree at the same time and build them with one another in mind.

[Gold]

As a father I’m disappointed seeing my children argue with one another and slander players who devoted their time to their character and this community as a whole.

It’s simple

Support spells should share the same CDs with their same type as my Caucasian counter part has stated. (hipster eternia shareholder^TM)

Heals
Shields
Invulns
Damage mitigation (caster bubble/wellspring bubble/ribcage)

Now let’s be a team here and focus on game positive suggestions, okay?

Ease up brethren, changes soon come my yute.

#12slots

[Nailman]

A lot of this thread was people trying to talk about how invulns should work instead, and I feel like it's a mild case of something akin to survivor bias; Everyone's tackling invulns because it's what is being used, but you have to remember that the problem isn't the invuln stacking, but the 2 spell combos that take 30 - 40% of your hp. A 2s invuln only keeps you that much more in the battle because if you don't have it, you're eating half your health. TC isn't going to return insane amounts of damage if you don't deal insane amounts of damage, and neither will DP.

The problem isn't with invuln stacking; Most of these were available and even used by people earlier on in the game, and while it generally made them strong because, yes, invulns are a really good way of rewarding skilled play - Specially low duration invulns, because they allow for you to lose little to no uptime and provide no opportunity for further setup by your opponent. If someone hits you the exact moment you pop TC, they're only going out of GCD when TC has already blown up. Others, like sand invuln, magma shell and deflecting palm don't share the same thing because I can stand next to someone and wait for my spells to come back, and time things to hit them when they come out. Something that just can't be done with TC, should I hit their invuln somehow.

The problem, though, is that invulns work much in a game where denying a single spell means you have 20% of your hp intact that wouldn't be otherwise. Even more so in a game where, in order to make healing useful, everything that heals has to heal absurd amounts of HP. Looking at you, sustain faeborne builds that got 40% of their hp back over the course of 10 seconds.

It's not a matter of *just* invulns being strong; They are, and while limiting them is not a bad idea, it's putting a bandaid on a broken bone, drinking some Tylenol, and saying that the problem is solved. It's a matter that higher duration invulns make it so you can gain a lot of time which gives you plenty of room to turn the battle around, since that high damage spell you have slotted will deal a fuckton of damage, or you will be able to heal all your hp back again, etc. If I need just two or three spells to deal 50% of my enemy's hp bar, why wouldn't I just keep those spells in my bar and buy for time otherwise?

thanks for coming to my ted talk