[Kiha]

it would be rather odd to obtain holyflame, which is a culmination of a character's identity and development, and then litter it with spells from every tree but those related to holy and fire, that feels disingenuous to the whole purpose of a signature and begins to dip into the realm of only taking it for it's stats, that said, it would be an extremely expensive build to pull off holyflame time, as wound reversal alone is a 65 RPP investment if we want to consider it

[Lt. Heart]

it would be rather odd to obtain holyflame, which is a culmination of a character's identity and development, and then litter it with spells from every tree but those related to holy and fire, that feels disingenuous to the whole purpose of a signature and begins to dip into the realm of only taking it for it's stats, that said, it would be an extremely expensive build to pull off holyflame time, as wound reversal alone is a 65 RPP investment if we want to consider it

75 since metaphysical attunement

[Sanguine415]

it would be rather odd to obtain holyflame, which is a culmination of a character's identity and development, and then litter it with spells from every tree but those related to holy and fire, that feels disingenuous to the whole purpose of a signature and begins to dip into the realm of only taking it for it's stats, that said, it would be an extremely expensive build to pull off holyflame time, as wound reversal alone is a 65 RPP investment if we want to consider it

 False equivalency, you could have a tertiary tree and still have the majority of the bar be holy and fire. It wouldn't be that expensive since 65 out of 200 to 220 RPP is a little more than a quarter, around a third of the expenditure. 

If it's a matter of identity and not of stats, as you insinuate, then Holy Fire doesn't need a trail, no?

[TheHopscotch]

Love Shadowflame

[Kiha]

The trail of flame-related auras is an identity present in every fire aura except holyflame, and no, it's 65; I included metaphysical attunement; it's 115 RPP for holyflame aura and timeskip, which then leaves 85 RPP to play around with for crafts, classes, stances, or spells within the trees attuned to

If you want to try a heal heavy build, you have 75 after picking up mend and 5 for a stance, if you want any of the fire mastery spells, you have 25 without including flameslide or gbw, the bread and butter of that tree, of which scorch is a joke and lfb is fairly good 80% of the time, or judgement beam, and further discussion could be had on how fire and holy don't synergize well.

If you do go the judgment beam route, you have to drop a minimum of an additional 10 points, leaving 65. It's probably smart to get sanctified flash as well, leaving 55 to obtain one of the intermediates of the fire tree, but still, this is not my point.

Holyflame feels a lot like a reskinned harmonic attunement, with, I'm pretty sure, a worse heal rate and trees that fit together clunkily; it feels like it was meant to be used with a corresponding tree, which it was at one point. I also do not want to use Surtyr for any examples, as there is much more to Surtyr's viability than the holyflame aura. I could use a different one and it would be arguably superior for PVP, my point is that it is lacking an aspect that would complete it's picture well in it's place among the cream of the crop high level abilities. I think even losing 10 power and gaining the same trail status as shadowflame that has half the damage value would bring it up to the same rung.

[Lt. Heart]

The trail of flame-related auras is an identity present in every fire aura except holyflame, and no, it's 65; I included metaphysical attunement; it's 115 RPP for holyflame aura and timeskip, which then leaves 85 RPP to play around with for crafts, classes, stances, or spells within the trees attuned to

If you want to try a heal heavy build, you have 75 after picking up mend and 5 for a stance, if you want any of the fire mastery spells, you have 25 without including flameslide or gbw, the bread and butter of that tree, of which scorch is a joke and lfb is fairly good 80% of the time, or judgement beam, and further discussion could be had on how fire and holy don't synergize well.

If you do go the judgment beam route, you have to drop a minimum of an additional 10 points, leaving 65. It's probably smart to get sanctified flash as well, leaving 55 to obtain one of the intermediates of the fire tree, but still, this is not my point.

Holyflame feels a lot like a reskinned harmonic attunement, with, I'm pretty sure, a worse heal rate and trees that fit together clunkily; it feels like it was meant to be used with a corresponding tree, which it was at one point. I also do not want to use Surtyr for any examples, as there is much more to Surtyr's viability than the holyflame aura. I could use a different one and it would be arguably superior for PVP, my point is that it is lacking an aspect that would complete it's picture well in it's place among the cream of the crop high level abilities. I think even losing 10 power and gaining the same trail status as shadowflame that has half the damage value would bring it up to the same rung.

You know I keep forgetting advanced trees are 40 for intermediate now

As towards LFB hard countered by pets[Vines/Clone/ect] sadly but it creates some interesting means those that use it take vs such things.

But all in all I don't fully disagree with your statement, like personally I love the fire intermediates but its masters/basics are really lack luster and in my opinion barely worth using, overheat can be okay at times but a lot of other spells does its ploy better. As towards synergy with holy I can see it? but at the same time I assume fire/holy is a zone/kite built type which in theory works well but often times its just better to use other things sadly.

That said whats the tick heal rate on holyfire 5 seconds? If so yeah I think Harmonic procs every 3?[not fully sure] 1:1 heal power is pretty nice tho if you've the flat power to support it

[Kiha]

Fire is a burst tree with a smidgen of CC tacked on in the form of overheat and firestream, you can't really kite effectively with just fire, and holy's only claim towards either thing is it's aoe and technically smite but smite is the worst homing in the game in it's environment, as it stops you in place for a good whole second or two. The auras that have tick heals are supplemented usually by controlling the rpb box so that you can sit back and force them to come to you, neither holy, fire, energy, or even cosmic which are all by far the easiest to have in the arsenal on the ether side encourage this behavior. The tick heal is negligible in the environment it exists in.

Magma arguably is one of the better trees that doesn't force you to deviate greatly from the aesthetic or element of holyflame while almost reaching the mark for control needed (it still lacks the actual CC one needs to get any actual use of the tick heal of an aura that has it). Even having the fire spells you use give you a weak tick heal while on the flames or on hit would tie a nice bow on top of the whole package for aesthetic and functionality.

It's as much an issue residing in the trees it requires as it is the aura itself, which is why all of this is strictly a pre-update suggestion. I don't know how holy or even fire will be after the update, and that could change how it feels/works in actual rpb drastically.

[Lt. Heart]

I actually really enjoy the concept of minor tick heals on firetiles with it >.> seems neet

[Lammy]

Why not just repurpose Holy Flame into a fate tree that utilizes spires' holy fire tree but revamped & also do similar with Shadow Flame?

would be nice

[Teemo]

Why not just repurpose Holy Flame into a fate tree that utilizes spires' holy fire tree but revamped & also do similar with Shadow Flame?

would be nice

They got too much on their plate Mal