[FireStartingSnake]

I agree with invuls being intermediate or at the very least not an opener. The mist one for example being changed to be a 40 RPP dip instead of 30 RPP is a good first step. If it's not enough then I don't see a problem with it going intermediate. I think in general this shows how little mist tree is though, a very weird tree right now if you ask me.

I don't like the idea of sharing CDs on immunities. It's a band aid fix limit that I think could be done a bit better.

Holy eshield is goofy, I don't know why its 40% DR and occult eshield is just way worse in every regard. I think that could be changed. Maybe give occult shield 30% DR and 10% AP like a cast buff? It'd fall in line with the auras and give it much more use. Or just put everything back to 30% and have them just be reskins.

[Chance]

Something like adding a cap of 2 immunities/shields on hotbar (labelled defensive spells?) & adding more immunities (f.ex Twister could be one, or at least a better Shield) and improving the underused shields could be good. Then we're free to add as many defensive spells as we want to the spell trees without fear of stacking.

[Powerjake]

twister sucks that would be a dope change and make it useable

[Sailor Ryu]

Honestly? This might be a good start.
Limiting how many of certain types someone can stack onto a build definitely halves the issue, but there's still the issue of some of them still being incredibly strong and will only lead to people narrowing down which they use, making certain magics far more prevalent. (Why would I run any other +DR when I can run the 40% from holy, why would I run any other invuln when I can run the longest in the game from summon, etc).

I'd rather see it shuffled around to encourage more build variety while still seeing the actual oppressiveness of hyper sustain/DR builds narrowed down to being at least competitively viable but not outright oppressive as they currently are without shoehorning people into running specific things.

I'm just a slut for variety as a whole though. I want people to be running different things that're thematic for their characters rather than what's strong and what's not.

[GSM]

Holy eshield is goofy, I don't know why its 40% DR and occult eshield is just way worse in every regard. I think that could be changed. Maybe give occult shield 30% DR and 10% AP like a cast buff? It'd fall in line with the auras and give it much more use. Or just put everything back to 30% and have them just be reskins.

Make it just a recolor, at this point.

Holy cheeses out too many wins by having eshield be mega buffed for 10 SP where occult users are told to go kick rocks by never being able to bar it. If they do, they’re asking to lose.

30% for everyone, leave it as just recolors.

[Milly]

occult shield is good. do not let this man fool you.

[RainIsABirb]

Something like adding a cap of 2 immunities/shields on hotbar (labelled defensive spells?) & adding more immunities (f.ex Twister could be one, or at least a better Shield) and improving the underused shields could be good. Then we're free to add as many defensive spells as we want to the spell trees without fear of stacking.

Forcing people to work around limits is a good way to shake up the meta.

A few personal suggestions for future defensive spells:
- An invuln or lesser defensive on primordial flame's E
- Lightning Embodiment buff
- A reflecting ribcage-esque spell in crystal
- Move Mistform to basic or intermediate, add something to ice?
- Another defensive in Ether or a change to how eshields work across the board. Equalizing them to holyshield somehow (ex. occult could give AP in addition to the reflect, cosmic could regenerate mana and give 35dr, absorb could add an extra tick of mana drain, etc etc)

[Chance]

Limiting how many of certain types someone can stack onto a build definitely halves the issue, but there's still the issue of some of them still being incredibly strong and will only lead to people narrowing down which they use, making certain magics far more prevalent. (Why would I run any other +DR when I can run the 40% from holy, why would I run any other invuln when I can run the longest in the game from summon, etc).

I'm just a slut for variety as a whole though. I want people to be running different things that're thematic for their characters rather than what's strong and what's not.

I mean, if anything the tournament showed that there is an incredible amount of magic diversity at the moment, given how close and narrow a lot of battles were & the range of trees the finalists used. Even the current 'popular' magics were getting edged out a lot. So I disagree with the opposing sentinment completely.

Nonetheless, this change makes it possible for things to be more diverse as the fear of 'abuse' when adding a strong defensive spell to a tree.

[SilkiyTea]

hey guys, can we get a basic simple slow for each basic tree thats reliable.

says the person that doesnt use snares and stuns... Or combos..
Wow im boring.

[Nectarine Sunset]

I personally like #2 better as an idea, although I do agree that it would be problematic considering the method of 'well, if I can only run one shield/immunity, why not make it the best one'. Maybe nerfing the egregious ones would make more sense, along with either fixing up the root invulns to not make you able to instantly be screwed over or just reworking/omitting them.

For instance: turning Energy Shield recolor only, not because Occult Shield is useless (although I do think it's strictly worse than having massive amounts of DR personally), but because having to rely on a secondary choice of tree for a combo effect is stupid. We got rid of combo trees already. Leave it gone except for signatures.

A quick, terrible idea to go on top of this: Delete Mistform. Make Advection just Mistform+, where you dash and still stay in the cloud after it's over for three seconds (or just make it faster). Give Mist a new spell or two to compensate for it.

And if we REALLY want to get radical?
Make it so that you can no longer heal in invulns (minus Ribcage, whose job is literally that, giving its 50% healing upon damage - but not letting other ticks through).
The entire point of healing is that you're supposed to be sacrificing for it, man.