[Detective100]

I am well aware this may end up as a highly debated topic, but... Let's give it a spin 

So, recently I made an application for a unique weapon after getting the logs and dev mats, which led to this:

Currently, taking ultra quality bonus in consideration, my weapon's stat is this without enchant/pristine:
32 pow, 10 agility, 10 crit. (arcanium gauntlet, ultra rarity bonus added into the power)
The stats approved for the weapon, in comparison:
-5vit, +32pow, +10phys, +10agi, +10crit, +30weight, +2lightningpow (the ultra rarity gone to be added into the power)
So, in total, I get +10 physical and +2 lightning pow, at the cost of -5 vit and +30 power.

Thing is, one of the of the dev mats I used had its own stats to give, blood copper, which gives its own stats.
If you add only that to the arcanium gauntlets, you'll get this:
37 power, 10 agility, 10 agility, 10 crit, 10 weight, +2 ether pow,+2 lightning pow.
So in turn, I get +5 power, +2 lightning/ether pow, at the cost of only 10+ weight.

Keep in mind, this is only a single dev mat that can be added in without all the prior dev roleplay and other materials that have been used.
As of current? Still waiting for the revaluation of the stats with that in mind  

At first, I wanted to consider it a mere happenstance, but then I saw a repeat:



Approved stats: -5 vit, 32+ pow,  10+ crit,  20 weight, +2 bio pow, +1 fire pow (with Wrath modifier that decreases cap rolls by 1 for both sides)


For quick comparison, a simple, common auguria staff's stats are: 32+ pow, 10+ crit, -30 weight, +2 bio pow.
So with this unique, you get +1 fire power, but you lose -5 vit and gain +50 weight.

Thing is, the materials to make an auguria staff were among the recipe for the unique, with a dev mat used.
The reason why I'm stating a dev mat was used? Is this: After the statline was given, the crafter decided to simply make an auguria staff on their own using a golden anvil, while using a dev mat with added stats. The results:
 37 pow (with rarity taken into account), +10 crit, -30 weight, +2 bio pow, +2 Blood Pow

This, is a starkly better version. With a single use of a golden anvil, a dev mat from the auction which costed only 30000, and a single emote to pick out the +sub tree power.

Lastly? I'll like to show the stats of a single unique from the auction to help with the comparison:

The Scissor Blade is a clear improvement compared to other weapons of its type.
Compared to arcanium sword: +7 power, +25 agility/crit, with only -10 in physical which the other stat bonuses more than make up for.
Compared to arcanium gauntlets: +15 agility/crit, 15+ physical. A marked improvement all around, not accounting for rarity.


This in turn, leads me to the issue I noticed: The materials, time, and effort you put in the creation of a unique ends up giving you less results, compared to simply using up dev mats with added stats and mechanically put them into weapons you made - Be they from events, or auctions, or perhaps raid items.

To me, it doesn't seem to quite add up. I am not sure if there is a miscommunication between those who make the dev mats/auctions and those approving uniques or if there is another issue behind the scenes I can't quite spot, but seeing uniques with approved statlines that are more like sidegrades or at worst, downgrades (such as the auguria staff example above), compared to the better statlines you can via mechanical means? It is disheartening.

As of writing this, reevaluations were requested for both items. The first time was left with over a week without an answer, and the other, the one with stats worse than a regular auguria staff? Has been denied.

This is why I'm taking the risk and making this post, as there isn't any other clearly assigned place I can think of to talk about this issue.

[Gold]

“32 pow, 10 agility, 10 crit. (arcanium gauntlet, ultra rarity bonus added into the power)
The stats approved for the weapon, in comparison:
-5vit, +32pow, +10phys, +10agi, +10crit, +30weight, +2lightningpow (the ultra rarity gone to be added into the power)
So, in total, I get +10 physical and +2 lightning pow, at the cost of -5 vit and +30 power.”

Looking at my own arc gloves you got
+2 pow (rarity maybe?)
+10 phys
+ 2 lightning pow
+30 weight

Fully enchanted you would be hitting decently hard on your unarmed moves 52 pow + 10 phys, then add a phys enchant.

I’m not sure what the criteria is or if they have a chart of some sort to do the math. It does look a little sad but that’s just me looking at the weight. Otherwise it’s not too bad, another +5 pow would be alright.. or just cut that weight by 10.

One thing I agree heavily on is the time sink placed into creating something, it’s the one repeating theme you’ll see from everyone who plays this game over the years. Feels bad to think you’ve been shafted but alas, it’s RP at the end of the day, go get some more mats, talk to some peeps, create a new app with an upgrade. These kinds of posts never really get what you want when numbers are involved, ole reliable statement normally makes an appearance. “Not a verb simulator, focus on story not stats.” Keep that mantra in mind and gradually over time you’ll have a weapon you were glad to not only invest more time into, but eventually be proud of the time it took to get there. (Not neglecting the time you’ve already placed into it, and not everyone has time to dump a month and a half into a weapon, but we can’t discredit those that take IC years to develop something of greater or equal power.)

Happy gaming kiddo #shareholderspeaks

[Detective100]

To be clear, the statline that was approved is 10+ physical, +2 lightning pow, but at the reduction of +30 weight and -5 vit

Which in comparison, had I used just the blood copper without having to spend time to do any dev work? Would have been +5 physical, +2 ether power, +2 lightning pow, with only +10 weight as the downside.
Suggesting to add more dev mats puts fear in me too, since I am already 3 dev mats in. I fear if I'll try to use even more, they'll end up feeling wasted with another sidegrade instead.

[Gold]

Risk it for the biscuit, if the concern is wasting materials, do one/two upgrade per mat with separate apps down the line. Sure it took you time to get those and events are at an all time low for being ran, but I figure you mention those things in your app, ya know, ask for specifics on why x material granted you x stat. Sometimes they break it down for you.

Don’t feel defeated or scared, I’ve seen people put spireshards into staves and only get 10+ pow and +40 weight because of a singular piece of Nyeshk in the mix. If you talk to them you may get some guidance or better understanding of upgrading through the tiers of weapons by strategically planning your upgrades with higher grade materials and perhaps some awesome crafters who’ve been around the block. (I don’t know your situation nor am I saying you haven’t, most admins are up to talk you through it if they’ve got the time.)

[Spiffspoff]

As someone who has been an avid crafter (By proxy, or directly) through my playtime here in Eternia, the process has always been a tad ambiguous, and not always for the better. With the introduction of the archive, it can be a fun experiment to look through the ages, and see what sort of silly stat-lines were permitted in the past.

I've personally had my own share of quite powerful items approved, some of which I've been squinted at a few times for even being allowed to make in the first place. Let me provide examples of such:

A pendant-slot, pre-enchanted.



A weapon-slot, pre-enchanted.

Both of these items were essentially the singular culmination of the characters that made them. They poured their everything into seeing them brought to reality. Created dev materials themselves. Consulted a multitude of people to assist in the matter. In the latter's case, fought some of the most powerful beings in Meranthe at the time.

Disregarding the rather absurd number of logs each project took (We're probably looking at a combined total of over 30 for both, accounting for dev materials specifically created for these projects), the stat-blocks are very, very powerful as far as my understanding go.

And I think it's these older uniques with substantial numbers that people are most afraid of, and why the application-process has been thoroughly touched up on since then. You could reliably poop out a slew of decent equipment before, always better than the average stuff you could create without going through the hassle of making a thread. The hassle was worth it though. And it showed. The funny term we coined for 'Unique piñata' when an established character died, and exploded into a Final Fantasy-esque shower of cool gear was very real, and there were very real concerns about when Jokul initially died, that the next person in line would just collect all his gear to immediately become overpowered.

I haven't made many things yet on my new character. I'm going to, naturally, since that's my character's main drive, but I've certainly noticed a shift already: Things are much more difficult. Where 2-3 crafting logs could get you a low-tier, but still beneficial upgrade, that's seemingly no longer a thing. Materials are weighed much less, and so is pure crafting logs, essentially forcing crafting characters into doing extremes if they want to truly want to make a wonder.

This is both a good, and a bad thing.

it ensures the product made is good, and that you can't half-ass uniques. So that they are, in fact, unique.

But I believe, at present, there's a strange disconnect about what crafters want to do, and what they're actually allowed to do, and even less understanding of what is an appropriate amount of effort to place into an application.

From all previous rejections of my own applications, or cases where alterations to the outcome was made, I was never informed why besides in a single instance. Beyond that I was never provided with a potential way to get to where I wanted to be with the result. I know most of the reasons, because I asked afterwards, at which point I obviously tried to meet expectations, but I feel a lot dissatisfaction stems from the decisions made beyond the veil, never to actually reach our ears in any way unless specifically sought out.

So I think a lot of the perceived gripes could be fixed if the reason for these alterations, or denials were provided in greater detail. 

There were approvals which I weren't satisfied with, so I returned with more logs later, but nothing in these logs were requested, or really did much more than pad out the total number put into the project. So with the advent of the new application standards, it feels, to me, that more is better even if it isn't necessarily all that interesting to RP, or document.

Creating a unique can be an extraordinarily time-consuming thing. A crafting scene can easily last three hours depending on the quality, and the amount of people in the scene. But let's be generous, and say our crafting scenes are two hours long on the dot.

The ideal crafting application has three stages:
- The planning: Simply planning out what you'd like to do.
- The crafting: The actual creation of your thing.
- The polish: Finishing up, regular testing, or whatever else you might fit here.

That's six hours, for three scenes. 
But, you potentially these add onto:
- Crafting scene 2: You need another person whose expertise is useful in this scenario.
- Event trip: These can be exceedingly long, but we'll be nice, and say six hours because it was a specific one for crafting things. We'll cut that in half because it was enjoyable to do, so it only felt like three hours of actual crafting. The forge tried to eat someone, it was a good time.
- Related interaction: You met your rival in the wild, and had an epic fight, or perhaps you need to ask a dragon's handler for permission to use dragon fire to forge with. Or you could simply be spewing crafting jargon at someone else. And oh boy you could have a lot of relevant scenes in these.

Now we're at 13 hours of trying to make this application. Again, we're being generous with the time. Especially since this isn't accounting for any dev materials you might need to attain, or make yourself. The latter of which is this entire process doubled up.

As someone who works a full-time job, it can be extremely difficult to make something stellar. If only due to the time-sink, and involved process. Will I still do it? Naturally, because I enjoy this kind of roleplay, and I'd hope anyone who embarks on this bureaucratic nightmare does as well. But when the outcome of a week's worth of active game-time for some of us is mediocre at best, it kind of stings.


TL;DR:
- It's understandable the staff is afraid of powercreep, but...
- We're not always told of why we're denied, or why core parts of our apps are changed, and it sucks.
- It takes a ton of time to make even a low-grade unique which you might not like.

Suggestions:
- Give us more detailed explanations of the process behind denials/alterations. What we can do better, etc.
- Make it more transparent what sort of development is needed for items, the archives are not useful for this because old items are god-tier.
- 10+ relevant logs is too much oh god please.

[Milly]

I won't post this as an admin, as I just got off work and I'm falling asleep. However what I'll do is show screenshots of some of my apps from Meranthe that are NOT already archived, as perhaps this can help people with ideas etc. (I am relying on another admin or possibly chance to respond to this officially with reasons as to why detective's items turned out as they did).

Aubrey's Cloak of Stage Fright:


Logan's latest upgrade to his Lightsaber:





Sometimes it isn't about the stats, but what one achieves with items.

[Kiha]

Both Folhammar and Isaac's gun seemed to get most of their oomph from the items' involvement in story. Materials are from my experience a vessel to commit that legacy into a tangible increase in power or utility

[Chance]

'Apping for power', for lack of a better term, is not incentivized. Generally uniques will be similar to the public, high end crafting recipes (that can be mixed with event obtained special resources) unless we see a greater purpose being served or story being told. The exceptions are typically soulbound, or have some kind of pre-requirement to using them. You'll get the odd variation of course, like a funny auction item. There's no written science here since it is going to be subjective and standards have developed over time, but that's the gist.

[DragonDarklyDreaming]

Due to still being stuck in the hospital, I don't have the stats on hand, but I've had people ask how Renewal is so strong. The reasons are threefold:

I showed two similar, normal crafted weapons as a point of comparison.
The sword is bound by 6 different oaths to 6 different gods
Six different priests blessed the damn thing, and the amount of people ending up involved in its creation? Something like 7 people.

Also it was used in Tris' vows to her god. Also it was used in its unfinished 'prototype' state in several major conflicts.


In short: the weapon became a major driver of rp at the time for me, and I tried to involve as many players as possible in the process. This lead to a powerful weapon that became a symbol as much as it is a weapon.

---

Though addendum to my posts... Yeah this weapon has like 10+ logs attached to it. That's a ton of effort for most people.

[ratqueen]

i hate the unique economy + grindset so much bros

u know there's a reason movies + tv shows + books boil down all of the crafting into a 2 minute montage instead of a whole piece of its own that rivals the wordcount of Animal Farm, even in stories where said weapon is of the utmost importance. three times the screentime is dedicated to the bride convincing hattori hanzo to make the sword than there is screentime dedicated to making the sword itself, and in eternia that's usually flipped the wrong way around.

i have made four uniques for the entirety of meranthe:
- a resonator guitar to be a family heirloom which i poured my heart into and got worse stats than a mythril staff, so therefore nobody wanted to inherit it
- a handful of cheeseburgers made from a corpse where the brunt of the roleplay was acquiring the corpse and vdalionite tomatoes, but which never got spawned in because you can't edit food items anymore
- a black book to write the naughty misdeeds of my comrades into for my internal affairs character (not a good unique, i should have gone for something more meaningful or nothing at all)
- a character-goal-crucial hammer with the ability to steal and store the souls of whoever it kills that was shadownerfed a day after it was spawned in and has, afaik, just been sitting in a chest unused for 3 months

even being picky about when i make a unique, i can safely reflect on all of these except for the hammer and say that they were, ultimately, a waste of time and i would have both enjoyed the game more and had more opportunity to impact the game environment if i wasn't wasting the time it took to create them. the hammer only wasn't a waste of time because the process of its creation significantly affected the course of its creator's story, even if it might never see the light of day again.

stop making uniques unless they enhance your character's (and preferably other characters', too) story more than their statline
it isn't worth the time and effort and prolonged absence of your character from the pool-of-interactable-people