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(09-19-2022, 11:03 PM)Touc Wrote: I'm going to play devil's advocate in favour of rebirths.

Some builds don't have a chance in hell at fighting other builds. Anyone who's played melee (unarmed or armed) into minefield will get what I mean. Ent players who played against blood users in Esshar will also get what I mean. Hard counters are more prevalent than a lot of people think.

This essentially leads to a scenario where you're not allowed to leave a settlement unaccompanied when your rival is online because the moment you leave, you're going to be on their short list for people to scout for easy Ws.

Rebirths empower you to get around that, to change your build and have a fighting chance against said person. Sometimes an amnesia just plain isn't enough to deal with it, after all.

Given that rivalries often kick in at or around 200, 200 is a little low to be the build-changing cutoff point. At minimum, maybe it should be 205 to have a literal middleground.

EDIT:
Addressing Seeker, you can't learn Occultism if you've learned Holy magic and vice versa. Both kinds of magic literally corrupt your system and if you were to try to learn one after learning the other (even with a rebirth potion) I'm fairly sure you'd explode.

This! I was thinking this exact thing and should have added into my original post. If someone is just hunting you down and their build counters you sure you can maybe outplay it but sometimes that's not an option. If you cant well your either stuck in your settlement or house or you gather a group to leave with you and hope you beat them. Then what I said originally also is in this boat. If we are going to lower the level at least make it 205 that way we have a chance to test out builds with masters. Master spells sometimes save a build sometimes they don't.  I know someone will say the fights will lead to dev and my reply is sometimes someone just wants to leave their house or settlement to gather some materials without having to worry about running into that one guy that will possibly cap you and kill you when you really cant fight back.
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(09-19-2022, 11:04 PM)CuriousCat Wrote:
(09-19-2022, 10:54 PM)Seeker Speaker Wrote:
(09-19-2022, 03:28 PM)chance Wrote: Considering removing Rebirth potions or at least changing it so it refunds 1 tree rather than the entire kit. Unsure.

I've been giving this a think, so why not toss in my two cents. Maybe...
  • Can only be used twice.
  • 200 RPL restriction, after that no go.
  • Will refund everything EXCEPT attunements.
On one hand, I like how Rebirths work at the moment. Being able to redo an entire build twice before RPL 200 is pretty fun. But that's a mechanical fun, and most of the time I'm all for mechanical fun but...

There's something that makes me feel... meh/bleh about redoing an entire build. Like all of it. I could if I wanted to swap into an entirely different build without sticking to the core fundamentals of my character (And I did on Ryllie, literally swapped from fire to straight up all Metaphysical. Sure, it was a character arc involving religion but even then...).

If you make it that it can't refund attunements, then the original, core concept of the magic of a character HAS to be kept. A time mage cannot simply drop out of metaphysical. A magma mage cannot simply drop out of fire, etc etc...

Oh. Also. I'd make it that occultism and exorcism CANNOT be refunded via a rebirth. IDK if it can be refunded but... Yeah that sorta magic shouldn't go poof period.

That's called a Mana Amnesia bud.

Mana Amnesia's don't refund openers.

So if you buy into Magma, you cannot refund the magma opener with an amnesia potion my friend.

What I'm pitching - Yes I'm Seeker if nobody knew it yet- is that it refunds the opener of advance trees, but not the attunements of base trees. So, whereas with an Amnesia you can refund up to Magma opener, a Rebirth could instead refund up to the fire attune.

(09-19-2022, 11:03 PM)Touc Wrote: EDIT:
Addressing Seeker, you can't learn Occultism if you've learned Holy magic and vice versa. Both kinds of magic literally corrupt your system and if you were to try to learn one after learning the other (even with a rebirth potion) I'm fairly sure you'd explode.

Ye, I know that. But considering the application/mentoring nature of Occult/Holy, as well as the IC & lore tied to it... I just don't think Rebirths should affect it. That's a tree someone should be stuck with period, because it takes some kind of IC to actually use it.

Rebirthing out of Occult or Holy is just a disservice to the character that got it through their IC at that point. But that's a my opinion sorta thing.
I swear I'm not...
[Image: 6d7a3f4d84055aacec42e9e916296a47.png]
[Image: f6b263cfa536c446e088c6c6a5d319e7.png]
I'm not owned guys.
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maybe if the rebirth potion had no restriction but needed aetherblossom it would be better
maybe you could let new players and IC applications that make sense dip out of a tree's opener when there's an issue/reason
then the whole community instead of calling someone a powergamer for changing their whole build twice would call them a wasteful powergamer who gave up on so much just to refund some 20 RPP openers

maybe that would be neat
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Vriska Wrote: yeah having an MCU loki icon is pretty cringe huh
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(09-11-2022, 05:21 PM)tomorrow's sunshine Wrote: The master cosmic auras need the basic cosmic aura to get them. Which is fine... if they were 5rpp instead of 10... and if all other auras didn't need that same requirement.

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Now... I did just print out ALL of the master auras in the game, but I don't want to flood this post. You get the idea- you can check for yourself if you want to-... anyways:

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In other words, buff cosmic.

This is still the case. Buff cosmic².
link baiano reborn
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sounds to me like all of the auras need to have their reqs changed to their tree's respective auras instead. ;smirk:
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(09-19-2022, 03:43 PM)Avee Wrote:
(09-19-2022, 03:28 PM)chance Wrote: Considering removing Rebirth potions or at least changing it so it refunds 1 tree rather than the entire kit. Unsure.

Rebirth potions should only work to 180, with unlimited uses.

This is my hot-take.

If by 180 you don't have some idea of how functional you will be with your build, or are rather uncomfortable with it, that would be the time to change.

Yes, I understand some builds aren't really "done" until 200+, but the point remains that by 180 you should have realized if you've fucked up or not.

This prevents needing to reprogram them broadly, and retains their useful effect. It also gives newer players the option to expiriement with multiple builds to find what they like before settling in. (Assuming of course they uh... pay the money.)

The limit is good and all, but the issue is that at 210, it's a by god completed build no matter which way you slice it. Not that this is a bad thing, but I've always looked at rebirth potions as a "God damn I fucked up real bad." option, and not nessesarily an option for changing your build in totality when you get absolutely trashed by someone one time in a verb.

Mana amnesias are the "I need to make slight adjustments to stay competitive."

Whereas rebirth potions should be the "I need to adjust this build now before it results in my inevitable doom later."


If you want a really spicy option, make every use of a rebirth potion cost 2.5RPP and keep the current setup.

That should be enough to make people seriously consider their use.

To be honest, the issue with that is there will always be the sense of 'Well maybe at 200 when I have my mastery'.

200 is for better or worse the 'soft cap' at which point you will most likely start noticing the issues with your build and no longer having the hope of correcting them via incoming RPL. That is where your growth more or less stalls out.

Honestly, just I feel like it would be a better idea to just make it unlimited uses regardless of what RPL you are, and have them apply an unhealable temp nerf to keep people from doing it constantly.
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Please let us remap the grab (G) button. G used to be a key I used for my Q or E buffs. Now I cannot. Plz. Plz...
I swear I'm not...
[Image: 6d7a3f4d84055aacec42e9e916296a47.png]
[Image: f6b263cfa536c446e088c6c6a5d319e7.png]
I'm not owned guys.
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Armed: Physis And physical power to help spells.

Unarmed: Just physical power.

The math is clear why unarmed is weaker.


Balance universe, give unarmed gloves a ammount of 'physical power' since they dont have physis, in their status lets say a silly example:

leather gloves: +1 physical pow
Steel gloves: +1 physical pow +1 physical defense
Mytril gloves +2 physical power
...Are we all Fools?...
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i am once more asking for the remaining 3 mastery token stances to be brought to their exalted variants, same as windwalker
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(09-20-2022, 01:39 PM)ratqueen Wrote: i am once more asking for the remaining 3 mastery token stances to be brought to their exalted variants, same as windwalker

big fan of this suggestion
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