[Tristam]

I am just trying to explain why the general consensus of "Chaos" is seen as "apostate".

If you look through the lore by searching the term of Chaos : https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/i...arch&go=Go

Chaos is often attributed to entropy, disorder, discord, and destruction.
And Chaos "doesn't create", but rather it alters what's existing. This is why the forces of the Fel seek rather domination, control and corruption. And Chaos often has affected Primordials to go also crazy and rogue, which lead us to the creation of the Pantheon as Amier splits.
https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/i...ter_Worlds

Even with the banishment of Hel, the world was far from stable in the aftermath. Humanity endured with the protections of benevolent spirits, but there were many chaotic Primals that were corrupted still causing routine natural disasters.

Even if I take the page about Nethradin on the Spirit realm, it says this : https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/i...#Nethradin

Nethradin are corrupted Esssence spirits, often after spending many years in Helheim. They serve one of the five Marquis, the great rulers of Hel, and by extension the transcendental force of evil that humans might refer to as 'chaos' or the 'dark lord' that governs the realm with as much power as a Divine Spirit.

This is perhaps why in the ticket, there is the idea for you to try to encourage to change the vision of such.

Or ! Alternatively, you can embrace the "apostate" nature of Chaos as in instead of breaking what is already founded, you change or improve it for a better end rather than in rebellion. It still goes against nature, but people will be less mad if for example a golem of stone acts more humanely rather than a rogue elemental, if you see what I mean.

Remember : Apostate is not an evil or pejorative term. It simply means you reject the idea of something, in this case you reject how is the ''default'' of the Universe to try making something better and different, in your definition.

Basically, with ''Chaos'', you could give a brain to the scarecrow that wishes to be intelligent.

[DreamsOfBlue]

ALSO if it WAS against life itself, or the lifestream, I wouldn't have been given Holy.

holy has nothing to do with inherently defending the lifestream, 

I can agree with this part but I stand with the rest of what I've been saying regardless.

Though chaos magic is not any more evil in nature than occultism. You can even argue, in lore, that its LESS evil.

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I am just trying to explain why the general consensus of "Chaos" is seen as "apostate".

If you look through the lore by searching the term of Chaos : https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/i...arch&go=Go

Chaos is often attributed to entropy, disorder, discord, and destruction.
And Chaos "doesn't create", but rather it alters what's existing. This is why the forces of the Fel seek rather domination, control and corruption. And Chaos often has affected Primordials to go also crazy and rogue, which lead us to the creation of the Pantheon as Amier splits.
https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/i...ter_Worlds

Even with the banishment of Hel, the world was far from stable in the aftermath. Humanity endured with the protections of benevolent spirits, but there were many chaotic Primals that were corrupted still causing routine natural disasters.

Even if I take the page about Nethradin on the Spirit realm, it says this : https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/i...#Nethradin

Nethradin are corrupted Esssence spirits, often after spending many years in Helheim. They serve one of the five Marquis, the great rulers of Hel, and by extension the transcendental force of evil that humans might refer to as 'chaos' or the 'dark lord' that governs the realm with as much power as a Divine Spirit.

This is perhaps why in the ticket, there is the idea for you to try to encourage to change the vision of such.

Or ! Alternatively, you can embrace the "apostate" nature of Chaos as in instead of breaking what is already founded, you change or improve it for a better end rather than in rebellion. It still goes against nature, but people will be less mad if for example a golem of stone acts more humanely rather than a rogue elemental, if you see what I mean.

Remember : Apostate is not an evil or pejorative term. It simply means you reject the idea of something, in this case you reject how is the ''default'' of the Universe to try making something better and different, in your definition.

As much as I'd love to do that and embrace it: This literally fucks over my IC.

I'm not complaining just to complain, I've been working hand in hand with Harmony and its church since it  perfectly aligns with my belief.


I don't agree that the label fits my belief at all. The ENTIRE POINT of this system is to have people who can worship the same deity but have different angles on it. I worship Chaos in an Animist matter.

It really should be as simple as that. Its what my movement is. Its bullshit that people are defining what I am doing wrong and focusing only on one end of it.



A Chaos / apostate movement could exist. Mine is not that.

[Iotasilver]

I'm kinda wondering why this is being viewed as a "Lore says this is evil thing, so it HAS to be apostate" when the church thing kinda just seems like a your interpretation mechanic? Like why are people who worship Pylae being allowed to be in the pantheon church when Pylae is 100% not connected to the pantheon at ALL, but they can't view chaos as animism?

Kinda confused (But I also don't have any skin in the game because I'm not involved in anything faith wise)

[StarMann]

All the constants are considered part of the pantheon (strictly speaking Amier was part of their pantheon and split etc etc)

[ASignalInTheNoise]

I'm gonna dip my toes in here a lil' bit.

I think the labeling on an OOC level doesn't matter so much as the IC perception of Chaos as a whole. Yes, I play the other Harmony person. Yes, I've said IC that Order and Chaos must be in balance.

But I have to point out that what you are preaching in-character (as said by me, in character) is pretty much a drop of water against a tidal wave. Chaos has, in exceptionally recent memory, caused a terrible amount of suffering and destruction. To affect the change you're describing, here, you need to produce a tangible in-character understanding so the layman can at least grasp the nature of what you're speaking about.

As it stands, someone worshiping Chaos will at best earn odd looks, and at worst, be called exactly that: an apostate.

Catildre is not part of the Pantheon. The things she represented are innately tied to Ba'al/Belial and forces of destruction.

This is similar to the Aphros situation of using Occult for good things - you have good intentions! That does not change the fact that at it's very core, the occult is still a terribly destructive force born out of a desire to destroy.

[DreamsOfBlue]

I'm kinda wondering why this is being viewed as a "Lore says this is evil thing, so it HAS to be apostate" when the church thing kinda just seems like a your interpretation mechanic? Like why are people who worship Pylae being allowed to be in the pantheon church when Pylae is 100% not connected to the pantheon at ALL, but they can't view chaos as animism?

Kinda confused (But I also don't have any skin in the game because I'm not involved in anything faith wise)

I just don't understand what is the point of having different faith / deity if its so rigid.

I thought the entire point could be "I worship chaos, but in an animist way" or "I worship chaos, but in an apostate way"

Now I'm being told "Any and all worship of chaos is apostate" which to me seems entirely wrong.



The label should be defined with how the belief is and how the religion acts, within the practitioners themselves.

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I'm gonna dip my toes in here a lil' bit.

I think the labeling on an OOC level doesn't matter so much as the IC perception of Chaos as a whole. Yes, I play the other Harmony person. Yes, I've said IC that Order and Chaos must be in balance.

But I have to point out that what you are preaching in-character (as said by me, in character) is pretty much a drop of water against a tidal wave. Chaos has, in exceptionally recent memory, caused a terrible amount of suffering and destruction. To affect the change you're describing, here, you need to produce a tangible in-character understanding so the layman can at least grasp the nature of what you're speaking about.

As it stands, someone worshiping Chaos will at best earn odd looks, and at worst, be called exactly that: an apostate.

Catildre is not part of the Pantheon. The things she represented are innately tied to Ba'al/Belial and forces of destruction.

This is similar to the Aphros situation of using Occult for good things - you have good intentions! That does not change the fact that at it's very core, the occult is still a terribly destructive force born out of a desire to destroy.

Yes but how the world percieves it absolutely has NOTHING to do with where my faith comes from.

My faith comes from an Animist source. Period.


No matter of admin or anyone telling me "but chaos evil" will change my IC. That is NOT my ic. My religion is Animist and fits within its belief.


And it doesn't even clash with the lore.

[Iotasilver]

All the constants are considered part of the pantheon (strictly speaking Amier was part of their pantheon and split etc etc)

So is this lorepage that is is JUST the 10 gods of meranthe being part of the "Pantheon" church wrong? -  https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/i...e=Pantheon

Is HEL apart of the pantheon then?

Like I understand lorewise they have connections - but, is the church thing a OOC lorewise thing and not a actual reflection of IC beliefs? Thats the disconnect I'm confused on.

[Big Cat]

To be fair. From what the ticket showed? They're giving you the ability to change that. Via IC. I think that's a fair thing and also provides some good opportunities to both raise your infamy as a presence on meranthe, but also get what you want out the faith. On the flipside!? Due to the faith changes-... Getting faith will be a hurdle.

[StarMann]

All the constants are considered part of the pantheon (strictly speaking Amier was part of their pantheon and split etc etc)

So is this lorepage that is is JUST the 10 gods of meranthe being part of the "Pantheon" church wrong? - actuall https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/lore/i...e=Pantheon

Like I understand lorewise they have connections - but, is the church thing a OOC lorewise thing and not a actual reflection of IC beliefs? Thats the disconnect I'm confused on.

Yeah it's out of date, let me fix it

[ratqueen]

can i get a key to translate the terms "apostate" and "animism" from their actual meanings to whatever the hell people mean in this thread