[Regalus]

Sorry for being a tad harsh but this is quite very disgustingly faction-centered. By Gods do not lock signatures to factions. I despise factions for the sole reason of their near requirement of being a part off to keep up with others.

I do appreciate the commends though but that can also become a problem as people might start begging for commends or people might specifically not want to give their enemies commends for this reason. It'll be hard to enforce the "no-ooc influence" rule on that.

A level limit placed on signatures may be nice. A guaranteed one always appreciated for long time players who quite dont have the time to rp extensively as may be required for development as had previously been put into place for 230s.

I love the fact that you actually do have to weave a story to justify you getting a sig, however, not ALL signatures really quite deserve this or rather... there's only so many ways you can develop jumping up and smashing down on the ground really hard or shouting loud enough to become a nuclear reactor.

[Milly]

Hi, I'm home from work!

I've re-read over the original post now that I'm home, and I get the significance of what Chance is trying to. I believe Astro stated they had like 42 ability applications to parse through - that isn't counting item applications, tickets, wonders, etc either that's literally just ability applications. That's a lot, especially for only six or seven (I think?) appmins. So I get what he's trying to accomplish.

What I would personally suggest:

1) The List
-- Go through and make an actual list of what is considered a master, an exalted, and a mythic - and keep it updated!! Right now there's a lot of confusion regarding what is what for several signatures. For example, Super Magi *was* an exalted, until we held a vote in staff chat to make it a mythic. But it isn't listed anywhere like that. There are some examples on the player guide on the wiki, but it doesn't list everything that a player could go for so it leaves a lot of peoples forced to look at a player made guide that isn't even accurate. This should be your main first step before anything else.

2) The Requirements
-- I know you said it would be loose guidelines, but from my past experience with loose guidelines that either means a) the admins will adhere strictly to those and refuse to deviate/be afraid to deviate, b) they will loosen the guidelines to the point it doesn't matter anymore or, c) the guidelines will eventually be thrown out. There can be several arguments made for it being danger fights or not, or RPL or not, or EXP or not (EXP doesn't strictly correlate to roleplaying, as you can rack it up by just logging in, etc). I don't think there's an easy way to tackle this that won't be gamed by the people who want an easy path to power.

I don't have an exact suggestion here, but I also don't think leaving it up to commends would work well either, as players can just game that as well. I know you mentioned 'legit' commends, but if I RP with say - Kynim for example, on Mitra, in a single scene even if it's just a, "Hello. Goodbye" scene, I could commend him. If we have to make sure commends are 'legit', that would perhaps involve further admin oversight and log diving, further twisting the system into what you don't want. I get what you're gunning for here with the commends being a determining factor to figure out who the community enjoys interacting with, however.

3) Factions & Influence
-- I know a lot of people already pointed out it forces people to be part of a faction, but really... How many people *aren't* part of a faction already? How many characters have *not* clicked on the Join Faction NPC in whatever settlement they want to be included/a part of. I don't think this would force people to be part of a faction but I also think if you want to utilize influence to purchase signatures -- very cool idea by the way -- the amount of influence you get for RPing in the faction should get a slight bump. As it stands right now, you can use influence to purchase spawns, keep your gear polished, and upgrade your settlement. Most of these things, people pile their influence together for! If now they need to save up for their own signatures, they'll be less inclined to assist.

Suggeston: Increase the influence you get from RPing, and maybe increase the daily cap as well to handle the idea of spending more influence. It doesn't need to be a lot, of course.

4) Guild Matters
-- Break down the limited ranks in guilds. If Aphros' guild is meant to have Rank 1 be citizens, Rank 2 be Authority and Rank 3 be Knights you wouldn't logically have a limited number of Knights. This is just a single example, but yes.

5) The Non-combat Signatures
-- With this proposed system in place, what's the method/thought process for people applying for things such as Runecasting and Golemancy? Same thing as what you proposed or would it still follow the old system?

6) Mythics
-- You'd be inviting a lot of scorn and derision from players if Mythics were purely handed out on Lorekeeper/DM/Admin wishes and whims. I do however get the sentiment; to reward people who shake up the status quo and are clearly trying to do something rewarding narratively, perhaps even at the detriment of themselves.

[Dreamspeaker]

Good suggestion, but I agree with Myradin's & Madsen's points. Influence is weird in how it's acquired, you have to do dangers while wearing faction uniform (and it's janky/ doesn't always work) so you have to be part of faction, or you have to roleplay inside of your own settlement. The latter is particularly grating to me. Shouldn't you be encouraged to interact with the world, and be able to earn influence anywhere, instead of being encouraged to sit inside of your own settlement all the time? It should be possible to earn influence anywhere in the world at a reasonable rate before that requirement is implemented.

It's also a bit unclear to me how Mythics go. I mean, events or public events? Headmin blessings? Let's be honest here, and I mean 100% honest - unless you have a DM on your speed dial, or maybe a staff member invested in your story, chances are it will never be seen or heard. It's not even the "they're biased thing", people shouldn't be forced to oversee/ participate in something they don't feel like participating in, but how would you address it? It might be worthwhile to keep applications for Mythics in that case, but that will lead to a problem of "everyone must app for a Mythic to make the field even".

Alternatively assign staff member to check up on all players who try to go for a Mythic, so it's not just a voluntary blessing, but a mandatory supervision for them. Seeing as there will be less time spent on apps, maybe they'll have enough time to do so. But again, a tricky subject. Feels like forcing them to engage in something they might not want to, but what else is there to do?

Still, it's a good idea in general to move away from apps, or try to.

[Chance]

Perhaps generalizing it a bit more (less checkmarks to tick) would be better. Master @ 30k EXP, Exalted @ 100k EXP. 
Master/Exalted purely being combat/non-lore intensive signatures, then Mythic is your more lore heavy stuff that needs oversight or a plot decide (be it a world event, staff review, or a lorekeeper/mentor). 

In this case, Mythic wouldn't really mean 'stronger' so much as outside of the basic progression path.

There are a lot of signatures that are pure power boosters and don't really need heavy review. They should become public for long-lived characters, to free up both player and staff time.


I think. Still ruminating.

First I'll work on categorizing signatures/updating the guide using the helpful unofficial signature list, then I'll post a rough draf here for how the system will work. It'll be more generalized / less boxes to tick; probably just EXP/level, maybe how long you've been active. Ideally in the future this'll be handled in-game via the spell tree rather than manually given.

So master/exalted will be signatures without any major lore expectations, and mythics will be that. As for concerns about acquiring these/being overlooked, the form will still exist for this beyond the other avenues (lorekeeepers, mentors, etc); it'll just be a lot of weight off of the staff's back since the majority of requests are not these spells.

Something that's also on my mind is I think it's really cool that characters can empower each other. I want to see people play into this for themed mythics as well; the way aether works as uplifting 'champions' for factions is neat, same for the faceless. Because it's often a collective choice/pursuement of a group that's organic and rewarding.

[TheHopscotch]

Perhaps generalizing it a bit more (less checkmarks to tick) would be better. Master @ 30k EXP, Exalted @ 100k EXP. 
Master/Exalted purely being combat/non-lore intensive signatures, then Mythic is your more lore heavy stuff that needs oversight or a plot decide (be it a world event, staff review, or a lorekeeper/mentor). 

In this case, Mythic wouldn't really mean 'stronger' so much as outside of the basic progression path.

There are a lot of signatures that are pure power boosters and don't really need heavy review. They should become public for long-lived characters, to free up both player and staff time.


I think. Still ruminating.

First I'll work on categorizing signatures/updating the guide using the helpful unofficial signature list, then I'll post a rough draf here for how the system will work. It'll be more generalized / less boxes to tick; probably just EXP/level, maybe how long you've been active. Ideally in the future this'll be handled in-game via the spell tree rather than manually given.

So master/exalted will be signatures without any major lore expectations, and mythics will be that. As for concerns about acquiring these/being overlooked, the form will still exist for this beyond the other avenues (lorekeeepers, mentors, etc); it'll just be a lot of weight off of the staff's back since the majority of requests are not these spells.

Something that's also on my mind is I think it's really cool that characters can empower each other. I want to see people play into this for themed mythics as well; the way aether works as uplifting 'champions' for factions is neat, same for the faceless. Because it's often a collective choice/pursuement of a group that's organic and rewarding.

Holy yap

[Enginseer-42]

So one thing I remember being really fun in E1 was the whole seers of darkness arc. Where people could get Death Magic if they would seek out Judeal Loki.

I think, for a lot of things that could work. Especially if it gives us 'seasonal conflict.'

Obviously right now we're in the Atrellya Arc. But imagine if you could set up an arc by just introducing two lore keeper NPCs and letting the players pick which one to work for? And among the boons they can give, is a single hidden spell.

[Benyah]

3) Factions & Influence

-- I know a lot of people already pointed out it forces people to be part of a faction, but really... How many people *aren't* part of a faction already? How many characters have *not* clicked on the Join Faction NPC in whatever settlement they want to be included/a part of. I don't think this would force people to be part of a faction but I also think if you want to utilize influence to purchase signatures -- very cool idea by the way -- the amount of influence you get for RPing in the faction should get a slight bump. As it stands right now, you can use influence to purchase spawns, keep your gear polished, and upgrade your settlement. Most of these things, people pile their influence together for! If now they need to save up for their own signatures, they'll be less inclined to assist.

Not too sure about this one in particular, I'll try to be as concise as possible when articulating my thoughts here, please feel free to criticise me or insert your own opinions, but from my perspective:


 My character spends alot of time travelling across the Republic to different parts of it and territories, but their "Faction" is Fortune, technically. I spend most of my time rp'ing elsewhere, rather than the place which, I'm in their guild and I acquired alot of influence previously. 

For other characters like my own, who aren't technically part of places like Gloomlight, Martyr's, but share allegiance to the collective efforts of the Republic, that's difficult. Because we are part of a faction, we do contribute to it's RP, but we're just not mechanically included, not because anyone is excluding us. But because the framework concerning the mechanics themselves doesn't accommodate us. 

It's not really forcing anyone to be a part of a faction, but it's definitely forcing you to rp in one specific area, rather than venturing out, and knowing how hard people work on Sigs, while this is beneficial for the faction leader of that territory (cuz activity within ur settlement is great!) It ultimately kinda forces you into a specific way of playing, if you want to progress to the next point in your character's story (strength wise). 

This can be fixed by mechanically joining all the guilds and asking for citizen or whatever their rank 2 is. But, if there isn't a way to pool all of the influence you have acquired? It kind of defeats the point of overarching allegiances like the Republic, or the West. 

I know characters from the Frontier spend alot of time in Midpoint, this would rob them too if they're not rank 2 in the Midpoint guild, or splitting their time among Midpoint, the Frontier, etc etc, if Influence could not be pooled up. 

That's my only concern here.

[edetha]

I'm also worried about faction influence, but for a different reason.

My character is an artificer who spends a fair bit of time indoors crafting stuff for players. Not just uniques, but also mundane gear with it's creation RPed out, giving good descriptors, etc..

One problem... That happens INDOORS. So even though I'm logically in the Frontier, as that's where my home is, building gear for Frontier recruits, roleplaying with them, et cetera...

It doesn't count, because I'm not outdoors.


Can someone from Gloomlight let me know if this issue exists over there too, due to the unreality realm?

[Dandeli]

not too shabby.. maybe don't involve commends because those are too random (coming from someone who has over 10), and maybe a pity system for people who are god awful at fighting (not me, im the strongest eternia verber)

edit: oopsie i was on phone :3

[Velkor]

I like the overall idea of all this. But there are some minor things that I don't agree with and others have pointed them out but I will explain mine anyway. Using the master signature example as a basis. 







Master Signature
Requires the following,
Level 220 (Make this a soft requirement at best. There are people running around pre 220 that deserve a signature and I wont lie some characters don't last to 220. Make it a thing where getting to certain levels up your chance of getting it.)
3+ Dangers (kind of pointless given how dangers are pretty easy to get now days.)
3+ 'legit' Commends (clearly not OOC influenced) (Commends would become a thing just given out often like others said. And just become a new checkmark on the list. Right now they feel good when you get one. But if this is brought in it would make them become less cool and interesting.) 
Rank 3 (elite+) in a faction for 1+ month (or total if multiple factions) (as others said don't tie it to ranks in a faction. This would lead to way to many issues oocly and icly.)
Participated in 3+ events (raids, public events, etc) (don't tie them to world events.)
Costs 10,000 influence to acquire (alternatively can spend Faith, Undeath, or Essence) (not everyone will get this and cant or just don't want to be in a faction. So same reason as the faction ranks idea.)

How to fix all this? A lot of ideas already been said. And most i agree with.


Make a list of all the signatures and fix where they stand as far as what they are considered.

The guidelines is a issue that is hard to fix since well like Milly said there is a issue no matter how you do it. I think a more soft requirements guidelines is best. One where you should try and have at least certain things done that give you better odds. Overall if the things chance gave us were treated as soft requirements? I would be fine with it for the most part. 220 a soft requirement where people can get it while under that but if you are at least that level you have a higher chance to get it. Honestly i think that a mix of what we have now, What chance is suggesting and Madsen merit system. So if we combined all of them  For example in my mind at least. You give a list of soft requirements.  So lets take that list from earlier.


Master Signature
Requires the following,
Level 220
8+ Dangers
Participated in 3+ events/plotlines (raids, public events, etc)

So with the changes i made this would be a good starting point for what a soft requirement i think would be off the top of my head. They hit 220? Ok they get a merit point from madeson's idea. They get 8 dangers? They can get a merit point. And so on. Does someone think they deserve a signature prior to getting those requirements? They can fill out a form like we have now maybe changed up a bit to better work with the new system. This list could be molded to also fit what the team things is important keeping it updated and letting the players know. That is one issue I do find with the team no offense to anyone i love all the admins and moderators that put up with us. But sometimes i don't think everyone is up to date on what is in the game what isn't and so on. This will hopefully help remedy that as well. 

But im just spit balling off the top of my head so can take this with a grain of salt really.